Okay, this is for those of you that don't use chemicals...how do you feel about using miracle grow? I haven't used it, mostly because I'm ignorant to what's in it and don't know if there are non-organic additives in it. My stuff is not near as big or flowers as long as my SIL who uses it on everything. What's your take on the subject?

Miracle-Grow All-Purpose Plant Food Contains 15% total Nitrogen; 30% available Phosphate; 15% soluble Potash; and minor amounts of Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese, Molybdenum, and Zinc.

Miracle-Grow for tomatoes...
1.4% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
2.6% Nitrate Nitrogen
14.0% Urea Nitrogen
18% Phosphate
21% Soluble Potash
0.50% Magnesium
0.10% Iron
0.05% Zinc

Hi Mary,

miracle gross is definitly not organic.

I'll try to explain how it works.

Using a synthetic formulation that consists of various forms of sodium and other ingredients, the stuff forces the cells at the growth stage of a plant (leaves, flowers, fruit) to open more than designed by Nature, in order to accelerate nutrient transfer which concentrates energy at the "visible" areas.

Problem is that, if you stop using it, the process collapses. Ergo you are told to keep using it.

That is the "junkie aspect". Aside from affecting the natural order of a plant's intake/transfer of nutrients, the stuff also sours the soil by dumping excess sodium near the stalk. This in turn hurts the micro organisms that make a soil work, thus sterilizing a soil after prolonged use.

duckie

Wow

I had no idea.

Thanks Duckie! That was excactly the kind of info I was looking for. Though I can't help but wonder...

When I didn't see any form of sodium (at least not that I recognize) on Rugby's list, I went digging for the MG site, and looked at their label for plant & veggie soil. They list the N/P/K content, but nothing else really - of coure the percentages don't add up to 100, so I wonder what else is in there - meaning, is the sodium and other stuff not listed, or is what not listed just the compost variables that are in the soil. Hmm.

So, I figured I'd check out their organic soil mix - without getting into a science thesis, the mixture is similar, but the contents are derrived from manure alone, rather than additives, but seem to contain close to the same mix of NPK. So, I'm still confused about what's in their stuff, 'organic' or not...

They refered the reader to a website to see levels of metals in their mix - which only gives you an option for the Oregon and Washington depts of agriculture - which in turn lead me in yet another circle, finding no results in their search engine for 'miracle gro' - but finding reports in oregon that Scotts had violated some of their testing requirements, and had a cease and desist order to stop the distribution of their product in Oregon! Hmmm!

If you've read this far, thanks If you find any other info about MG, please pass it along - it's peaked my interest now!

DUCKIE~~~~~~~~~>
Very Nice Explainion!!!!!!!!

I have to admit, being organic here....
Butttttt, on very few occassions,
I will use it....
Mainly for shock and transplanting, ONLY!!!
*a quick shot of it, if I can, before transplanting, and a dose or two afterwards..
the plant has lost it's ability to soak up stuff
from the dirt or whereever, so I only give it a quick fix until it can re~establish it'self......

I use the slower to release types of fertilizers,
Compost, Bone Meal, Magnesium *Epsom Salt*, and manures...when planting in the hole or mixed in the dirt/soil mixture I mix up...

Can somebody tell me why this moved over here? I value everyone's opinion - but on this topic I was mostly interested in what organic gardeners opinions/thoughts/conclusions were...soooo that's why I put it in the organically speaking forum. Anyway, thanks. I'll do further research from here.

I moved it here because Miracle Grow is far from being organic in any way, shape or form.

Thanks Bill - that was my original question. Now I'm trying to understand why it's not organic exactly.

I didn't know fertilizer could be bad. I'm following along hoping I can retain the information.

I'm feeling very "OMG, now what do I do," about the information. I don't really have a good garden center that is cheap to get to so getting some of the organic stuff is going to be very tough.

Hi Duckie,
Posted 21 July 05
"That is the "junkie aspect". Aside from affecting the natural order of a plant's intake/transfer of nutrients, the stuff also sours the soil by dumping excess sodium near the stalk. This in turn hurts the micro organisms that make a soil work, thus sterilizing a soil after prolonged use."

duckie

Please tell me as to what you use to
"Sterilize the soil"

Dave

I'll post something here,
and then go back and re~read Duckie's first post!!

When a plant needs things to grow,
it spreads out it's roots to find nutrition the dirt/soil..
It spreads out it's leaves to absorb nutrition
thru the sunshine

Everything originally a plant needed would be found in the place the plant was or it died..

Facts of Mother Nature....

Then when stuff like Miracle Grow was invented...
it gave nutrition to a plant, when a plant either had the right conditions or it didn't...

Thus a plant that was healthy, sometimes, can make it over healthy with it, and turn and make it sick, because it's meeting it's requirements,
waaaaaaaaayyyyyy more than the plant needs...

And can keep a plant, not in a healthy place,
growing, but still not that great cause it's not happy where it is, but some nutrients are being given to it, but with something still being wrong,
it can still become a sick plant because of it...

It's all done with Chemicals, *don't ask me what kind, but not on any organic list I've ever read*
so, under basic rules of "ORGANIC", Miracle Grow doesn't fit in...or under it....

When a plant is growing organically.....
Only things found ORGANICALLY can be given to the plant..
And those things, are usually slower to release,
stay a bit over time, *where the other you have to reapply*, the organic stuff, never harms the soil, only makes it better actually...
the MG, can have a build up of it, and do funky stuff to the soil....hence killing the plant and or making it sick and inviting pests...

I would have to stick up for it in a small way..
As I do use it...
And I only use it as a tool in transplanting..
*somethings especially that resent being moved, and go into shock when moved, example; a tap root is broken in the moving process and the plant can't access it's own food until new roots are developed...*

Does that clear it up a wee~bit or confuse you more..
I probably went off on a tangent or two.. or forgot one..
but re~ask if I missed a point!!!

Duckie's post really was very good in it's information...

HI Dave, you snuck in on me while I
was typin'!!!

I do use MG with one of those water/feeder things. I don't use it every week, but when ever the plants seem to need a little help.

And how did he do that way back then???????
Or don't we wanna know that part!!!!

That's some good information.......
Thanks for

I have no idea how he discovered it. I assume today's urea nitrogen comes from animal blood.

Hi
Sorry about my last post. I misread it.
Last year I had onion fly in my garden and was told to "Sterilize the soil"
In England we used 'Jeyes Fluid' but cannot get it Canada.I'm still having problems.Going to rotate Tomatoes and Onions next year see if that works any better.
Dave

I didn't want to use MG, had thought I did good.. putting a LOT of compost in my soil & it looked mostly good. I bought some of the organic fertilizers to use at appropriate times.. from Gardens Alive. Everything seemed to be doing ok, but some of the stuff was growing realllllly slow, and it was bugging Steve to no end. He said my granny told him to use MG, and it would boost them & I might still see some tomatoes this year. Otherwise, my plants were too small to see any tomatoes this year. :rolleyes: Ok, so I bought a small jug of it, and used it I think 2 times around the garden. That's all I've used.. and yes, the stuff did really take off after that. I don't know if I can warrant it to the MG, or maybe they just needed more time. I think I'll just save the MG for times like weezie said.. in case of emergency. As much as I wanted to go organic this year.. I think I made some strides there.. I have a long way to go. *sigh*

Meg

I use miracle grow on my container plants and on my annuals. I do not use it on my prennials for the reasons bill stated. I do however use some preen and feed around them. They are all healthy and looking good ( I think ) And my petunias I use it on are beautiful and huge and full of blooms.

Mary,

Organic is supposed to be a more natural way of growing things. As Weezie mentioned, in nature plants grow where their nutritional and pH requirements are met. In our attempts to grow plants where they normally wouldn't, we must artificially provide those nutrients and pH via some sort of fertilizer.

All fertilizers are measured according to their N/P/K (Nitrogen/Phosphorus/Potassium or Potash) content. These are the major 3 nutrients involved with plant growth. There are other micro-nutrients that some plants require and others do not. The higher the number the greater the concentration of the nutrient. It's not a percentage.

Organic fertilizers provides those nutrients by some by-product of a natural process: i.e. manure, compost, naturally occurring minerals such as greensand or limestone, etc. Although the environment that we are creating for the plant is artificial, the source of the nutrients is from a natural or organic source. For example, an organic way to enrich the soil with more nitrogen is to plant a legume crop. Legumes can fix (use) the nitrogen in the air (which is plentiful) and store it in their roots. When the plants die and decompose, the nitrogen becomes available in the soil.

Chemical fertilizers are non-organic. They synthesize the nutrients in such a way that they can get results quickly. Think steroids. Anabolic steroids get results. There is no denying that they work. It's the side effects that are the really scary. The side effect of chemical fertilizers are many, and none of them good.

Although there are slow release chemical fertilizers, most are very water soluble. This makes them readily available to plants roots. It also means that they do not stay in the soil very long. They wash away to pollute our water tables.

Chemical fertilizers also tend to be toxic to worms and micro-organisms in the soil. (Ever wonder why Chem Lawn puts out warning signs to keep children and pets off the lawn after they spray? It's not because it's healthy for them.) This is the sterilization of the soil that Duckie mentioned. The soil is alive, and it is that life that makes the nutrients available to the plants. Miracle Grow kills a lot of the life in the soil. Since there is no life in the soil, the plants have less nutrients available via natural processes, hence you need to use more Miracle Grow; this is the "junkie" portion that Duckie mentioned.

I heard of a gardener that was growing prize roses. He was using MG or some other chemical fertilizer. He was using more than recommended to get the results that he wanted. Every year, he had to literally swap his beds with water to flush all the chemical salts out of his beds. Where do those chemicals go? Our water supply.

Does that clear up the difference between organic and chemical fertilizers?

Karrie,

Have you read the warnings on Preen? Definitely not organic, and it isn't any better than Miracle Grow. If you're not using Miracle Grow Then you don't want to use Preen either.

This is making total sense to me. I moved into a new home (1yr old)where it was apparent the topsoil had been scraped off the land and the builder put no plants on the property. He knocked down most of the trees except for the protected wet lands. There are 17 homes on the block and he left one tree standing in a front yard. I built beds with topsoil and did my planting thing, but I thought I was doing the right thing and kept pouring the MG on. First year great results, last year I stepped it up only in the spring then started experiencing problems with the plants. This year I was going cold turkey and have noticed the much slower development of my plants, but I have been adding manure, more mulch and all my coffee grinds to the soil. Thanks for all the great dicussion on this topic.

There is a new product made down here in Jacksonville that is all the rage right now. It's called Naturize . It's very different from Miracle Grow as it has over 50 types of nature"s own beneficial microorganisms that feed the soil.

I'm not sure if it's available everywhere. Check out the link above to read about it and to see if it's available near you.

I have been AMAZED at the results I have gotten with it.

G-Mom

I dont use miracle grow or preeen on my perennials period. Only on my annuals. I feel like I purchase annuals for one purpose for the added touch of color to my windowboxed and a few other areas that perennials arent planted. I want them to be plentiful and since they are not going to be here for more then one season I want to get the most out of them while I can.

PAR - THANK YOU!
That's exactly what I was trying to understand. I totally 'get' the consequences of chemical fertilizers and want no part of it. I did check out that Naturize and unfortunately it's only sold in GA and FL according to the website. I'm still wondering about 'organic' MG though - can they call it organic if it isn't truly organic? The only reason I'm hung up on getting MG instead of something from gardensalive is because it's more accessible and there's no shipping charge - on something as heavy as fertilizer, that's a big consideration for me. Course if I keep composting my heart out like I have, may be I don't need to worry about buying any

I'm with Weezie pretty much.

I used MG at half dose when my transplanted tomatoes resumed growth. I used it once.

When my squash stood up and started to crank, I hit it with MG at half dose; one time.

I'm not pure organic but I am successful.

I tried Miracle Grow on annual plants only, not on vegetables. I wasn't impressed with it. I'm much more impressed with Spray-n-Grow and Bill's Perfect Fertilizer on my fruits and veggies. Meg, you should give it a shot. I have zero Japanese Beetle damage on my pole beans. I think healthier plants naturally deter the insects. I'm thinking about spraying all of my plants with the Spray-n-Grow combo. I may even order their Coco-Wet next year.

One note though, Meg. They say not to spray anything else with the Spray-n-Grow. I tried it anyway with good results except that 2 of my 13 apple trees showed some sensitivity (to my organic sulphur spray I think). The growth wasn't as vigorous on these trees and the leaves were turning yellowish (brown on new tender growth) Also 2 of my 4 pole bean varieties were starting to show a little discoloration on a few leaves. I just stopped spraying the sulphur on those plants and they seem to be improving. I was
using the maximum application rate also. I might not have had any problems at the minimum rate.