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Using Miracle Grow
#26367 July 21st, 2005 at 01:48 AM
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Okay, this is for those of you that don't use chemicals...how do you feel about using miracle grow? I haven't used it, mostly because I'm ignorant to what's in it and don't know if there are non-organic additives in it. My stuff is not near as big or flowers as long as my SIL who uses it on everything. What's your take on the subject?


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26368 July 21st, 2005 at 04:00 AM
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Miracle-Grow All-Purpose plant Food Contains 15% total Nitrogen; 30% available Phosphate; 15% soluble Potash; and minor amounts of Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese, Molybdenum, and Zinc.

Miracle-Grow for tomatoes...
1.4% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
2.6% Nitrate Nitrogen
14.0% Urea Nitrogen
18% Phosphate
21% Soluble Potash
0.50% Magnesium
0.10% Iron
0.05% Zinc


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26369 July 21st, 2005 at 06:20 AM
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wavey Hi Mary,

miracle gross is definitly not organic.

I'll try to explain how it works.

Using a synthetic formulation that consists of various forms of sodium and other ingredients, the stuff forces the cells at the growth stage of a plant (leaves, flowers, fruit) to open more than designed by Nature, in order to accelerate nutrient transfer which concentrates energy at the "visible" areas.

Problem is that, if you stop using it, the process collapses. Ergo you are told to keep using it.

That is the "junkie aspect". Aside from affecting the natural order of a plant's intake/transfer of nutrients, the stuff also sours the soil by dumping excess sodium near the stalk. This in turn hurts the micro organisms that make a soil work, thus sterilizing a soil after prolonged use.

luv duckie


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26370 July 21st, 2005 at 07:03 AM
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Wow

I had no idea.


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26371 July 21st, 2005 at 09:13 AM
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Thanks Duckie! That was excactly the kind of info I was looking for. Though I can't help but wonder...

When I didn't see any form of sodium (at least not that I recognize) on Rugby's list, I went digging for the MG site, and looked at their label for plant & veggie soil. They list the N/P/K content, but nothing else really - of coure the percentages don't add up to 100, so I wonder what else is in there - meaning, is the sodium and other stuff not listed, or is what not listed just the compost variables that are in the soil. Hmm.

So, I figured I'd check out their organic soil mix - without getting into a science thesis, the mixture is similar, but the contents are derrived from manure alone, rather than additives, but seem to contain close to the same mix of NPK. So, I'm still confused about what's in their stuff, 'organic' or not...

They refered the reader to a website to see levels of metals in their mix - which only gives you an option for the Oregon and Washington depts of agriculture - which in turn lead me in yet another circle, finding no results in their search engine for 'miracle gro' - but finding reports in oregon that Scotts had violated some of their testing requirements, and had a cease and desist order to stop the distribution of their product in Oregon! Hmmm!

If you've read this far, thanks laugh If you find any other info about MG, please pass it along - it's peaked my interest now! wink


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26372 July 21st, 2005 at 10:24 AM
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DUCKIE~~~~~~~~~> thumbup thumbup thumbup thumbup cool
Very Nice Explainion!!!!!!!!

I have to admit, being organic here....
Butttttt, on very few occassions,
I will use it....
Mainly for shock and transplanting, ONLY!!!
*a quick shot of it, if I can, before transplanting, and a dose or two afterwards..
the plant has lost it's ability to soak up stuff
from the dirt or whereever, so I only give it a quick fix until it can re~establish it'self......

I use the slower to release types of fertilizers,
Compost, Bone Meal, Magnesium *Epsom Salt*, and manures...when planting in the hole or mixed in the dirt/soil mixture I mix up...


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26373 July 21st, 2005 at 11:25 AM
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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26374 July 22nd, 2005 at 12:46 AM
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Can somebody tell me why this moved over here? I value everyone's opinion - but on this topic I was mostly interested in what organic gardeners opinions/thoughts/conclusions were...soooo that's why I put it in the organically speaking forum. Anyway, thanks. I'll do further research from here.


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26375 July 22nd, 2005 at 01:07 AM
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I moved it here because Miracle Grow is far from being organic in any way, shape or form.

Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26376 July 22nd, 2005 at 01:14 AM
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Thanks Bill - that was my original question. Now I'm trying to understand why it's not organic exactly.


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26377 July 22nd, 2005 at 01:29 AM
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I didn't know fertilizer could be bad. I'm following along hoping I can retain the information.

I'm feeling very "OMG, now what do I do," about the information. I don't really have a good garden center that is cheap to get to so getting some of the organic stuff is going to be very tough.


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26378 July 22nd, 2005 at 01:44 AM
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Hi Duckie,
Posted 21 July 05
"That is the "junkie aspect". Aside from affecting the natural order of a plant's intake/transfer of nutrients, the stuff also sours the soil by dumping excess sodium near the stalk. This in turn hurts the micro organisms that make a soil work, thus sterilizing a soil after prolonged use."

duckie

Please tell me as to what you use to
"Sterilize the soil"

Dave

Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26379 July 22nd, 2005 at 01:57 AM
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I'll post something here,
and then go back and re~read Duckie's first post!!

When a plant needs things to grow,
it spreads out it's roots to find nutrition the dirt/soil..
It spreads out it's leaves to absorb nutrition
thru the sunshine

Everything originally a plant needed would be found in the place the plant was or it died..

Facts of Mother Nature....

Then when stuff like Miracle Grow was invented...
it gave nutrition to a plant, when a plant either had the right conditions or it didn't...

Thus a plant that was healthy, sometimes, can make it over healthy with it, and turn and make it sick, because it's meeting it's requirements,
waaaaaaaaayyyyyy more than the plant needs...

And can keep a plant, not in a healthy place,
growing, but still not that great cause it's not happy where it is, but some nutrients are being given to it, but with something still being wrong,
it can still become a sick plant because of it...

It's all done with Chemicals, *don't ask me what kind, but not on any organic list I've ever read*
so, under basic rules of "ORGANIC", Miracle Grow doesn't fit in...or under it....

When a plant is growing organically.....
Only things found ORGANICALLY can be given to the plant..
And those things, are usually slower to release,
stay a bit over time, *where the other you have to reapply*, the organic stuff, never harms the soil, only makes it better actually...
the MG, can have a build up of it, and do funky stuff to the soil....hence killing the plant and or making it sick and inviting pests...

I would have to stick up for it in a small way..
As I do use it...
And I only use it as a tool in transplanting..
*somethings especially that resent being moved, and go into shock when moved, example; a tap root is broken in the moving process and the plant can't access it's own food until new roots are developed...*

Does that clear it up a wee~bit or confuse you more..
I probably went off on a tangent or two.. or forgot one..
but re~ask if I missed a point!!!

Duckie's post really was very good in it's information...


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26380 July 22nd, 2005 at 01:58 AM
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HI Dave, you snuck in on me while I
was typin'!!! wavey wavey


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26381 July 22nd, 2005 at 07:31 AM
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I do use MG with one of those water/feeder things. I don't use it every week, but when ever the plants seem to need a little help.


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26382 July 22nd, 2005 at 08:05 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by RugbyHukr:
14.0% Urea Nitrogen
Quote
Urea was first discovered in human urine by HM Rouelle in 1773
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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26383 July 22nd, 2005 at 08:19 AM
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And how did he do that way back then???????
Or don't we wanna know that part!!!! shocked wink laugh

That's some good information.......
Thanks for kissies thumbup


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26384 July 22nd, 2005 at 08:21 AM
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I have no idea how he discovered it. I assume today's urea nitrogen comes from animal blood.


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26385 July 22nd, 2005 at 11:02 AM
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Hi
Sorry about my last post. I misread it.
Last year I had onion fly in my garden and was told to "Sterilize the soil"
In England we used 'Jeyes Fluid' but cannot get it Canada.I'm still having problems.Going to rotate Tomatoes and Onions next year see if that works any better.
Dave

Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26386 July 22nd, 2005 at 05:45 PM
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I didn't want to use MG, had thought I did good.. putting a LOT of compost in my soil & it looked mostly good. I bought some of the organic fertilizers to use at appropriate times.. from Gardens Alive. Everything seemed to be doing ok, but some of the stuff was growing realllllly slow, and it was bugging Steve to no end. He said my granny told him to use MG, and it would boost them & I might still see some tomatoes this year. Otherwise, my plants were too small to see any tomatoes this year. :rolleyes: Ok, so I bought a small jug of it, and used it I think 2 times around the garden. That's all I've used.. and yes, the stuff did really take off after that. I don't know if I can warrant it to the MG, or maybe they just needed more time. I think I'll just save the MG for times like weezie said.. in case of emergency. As much as I wanted to go organic this year.. I think I made some strides there.. I have a long way to go. *sigh*

Meg

Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26387 July 24th, 2005 at 11:35 AM
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I use miracle grow on my container plants and on my annuals. I do not use it on my prennials for the reasons bill stated. I do however use some preen and feed around them. They are all healthy and looking good ( I think ) And my petunias I use it on are beautiful and huge and full of blooms.


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26388 July 24th, 2005 at 01:47 PM
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Mary,

Organic is supposed to be a more natural way of growing things. As Weezie mentioned, in nature plants grow where their nutritional and pH requirements are met. In our attempts to grow plants where they normally wouldn't, we must artificially provide those nutrients and pH via some sort of fertilizer.

All fertilizers are measured according to their N/P/K (Nitrogen/Phosphorus/Potassium or Potash) content. These are the major 3 nutrients involved with plant growth. There are other micro-nutrients that some plants require and others do not. The higher the number the greater the concentration of the nutrient. It's not a percentage.

Organic fertilizers provides those nutrients by some by-product of a natural process: i.e. manure, compost, naturally occurring minerals such as greensand or limestone, etc. Although the environment that we are creating for the plant is artificial, the source of the nutrients is from a natural or organic source. For example, an organic way to enrich the soil with more nitrogen is to plant a legume crop. Legumes can fix (use) the nitrogen in the air (which is plentiful) and store it in their roots. When the plants die and decompose, the nitrogen becomes available in the soil.

Chemical fertilizers are non-organic. They synthesize the nutrients in such a way that they can get results quickly. Think steroids. Anabolic steroids get results. There is no denying that they work. It's the side effects that are the really scary. The side effect of chemical fertilizers are many, and none of them good.

Although there are slow release chemical fertilizers, most are very water soluble. This makes them readily available to plants roots. It also means that they do not stay in the soil very long. They wash away to pollute our water tables.

Chemical fertilizers also tend to be toxic to worms and micro-organisms in the soil. (Ever wonder why Chem Lawn puts out warning signs to keep children and pets off the lawn after they spray? It's not because it's healthy for them.) This is the sterilization of the soil that Duckie mentioned. The soil is alive, and it is that life that makes the nutrients available to the plants. Miracle Grow kills a lot of the life in the soil. Since there is no life in the soil, the plants have less nutrients available via natural processes, hence you need to use more Miracle Grow; this is the "junkie" portion that Duckie mentioned.

I heard of a gardener that was growing prize roses. He was using MG or some other chemical fertilizer. He was using more than recommended to get the results that he wanted. Every year, he had to literally swap his beds with water to flush all the chemical salts out of his beds. Where do those chemicals go? Our water supply.

Does that clear up the difference between organic and chemical fertilizers?


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26389 July 24th, 2005 at 01:50 PM
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Karrie,

Have you read the warnings on Preen? Definitely not organic, and it isn't any better than Miracle Grow. If you're not using Miracle Grow
Quote
...on my prennials for the reasons bill stated.
Then you don't want to use Preen either.


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Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26390 July 24th, 2005 at 07:47 PM
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This is making total sense to me. I moved into a new home (1yr old)where it was apparent the topsoil had been scraped off the land and the builder put no plants on the property. He knocked down most of the trees except for the protected wet lands. There are 17 homes on the block and he left one tree standing in a front yard. I built beds with topsoil and did my planting thing, but I thought I was doing the right thing and kept pouring the MG on. First year great results, last year I stepped it up only in the spring then started experiencing problems with the plants. This year I was going cold turkey and have noticed the much slower development of my plants, but I have been adding manure, more mulch and all my coffee grinds to the soil. Thanks for all the great dicussion on this topic.

Re: Using Miracle Grow
#26391 July 24th, 2005 at 07:56 PM
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There is a new product made down here in Jacksonville that is all the rage right now. It's called Naturize . It's very different from Miracle Grow as it has over 50 types of nature"s own beneficial microorganisms that feed the soil.

I'm not sure if it's available everywhere. Check out the link above to read about it and to see if it's available near you.

I have been AMAZED at the results I have gotten with it.

G-Mom grinnnn

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