Hey everyone. I wanted to suggest that we start a topic to be able to do a Bible Study. Not sure how well it will go over or if it is something we can even do here. So I wanted to know thoughts on the subject.

We have such a wide variety of people here and I think a great discussion could be formed.

I would love it Triss...and I think I can speak for Tricia as well...because we already do some devotional stuff by e-mail. I just think it needs to be cleared through Mr. Bill first and formost.

Count me in ok?

Bill? Would this be ok? We could keep the title Bible Study so those who do not want in don't have to come in.

I don't mind.... as long as you all behave yourselves!

Behave ourselves I don't believe in forceing people to do anything.
Jimmy

Thank you so much Bill. I am sure that everyone will behave!

I will get the first thought up in a bit.

Hope this is ok with everyone. Not really sure how to do this, so just going to jump in.

So much is going on with the hurricane. I keep hearing people tell one another to have faith and all will be ok. Have faith and the food and water will get here. Have faith and you will survive.

In addition, just last week our Pastor did his sermon on faith. So it has been on my mind quite a bit as of late.

Hebrews 11:6 says "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exisits and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him"

Thoughts to ponder:

What is faith to you? How does faith affect your life?

I think you are correct Triss...this is a timely topic.
I believe that every single human being...from infants to elderly...have faith.Faith is a natural, normal instinct (that may not be the word I'm looking for)that is instilled in humans from birth. The question is...what is your FAITH in....?
Even a baby that you set on a table and allowed to "jump" off in your arms...has "faith" that the parent will catch him...as we get older our faith or "beliefs" go in different directions.

God says, the more hopeless your circumstances, the more likely your salvation. The greater your cares, the more genuine your prayers. The darker the room, the greater your need is for light....
(Matt. 5:5) Blessed are the dirt poor, nothing to give, trapped in a corner,destitute, diseased...Jesus said "for THEIRS is the kingdom of Heaven"
I have always heard that the more intellegent the person, the more difficult it is to get them to "believe" or have faith in God...because they cannot reason it out.
So, for ME...faith is the belief that GOd is REAL and that God is good....it is a choice to believe that he is our creator and that he has NOT left us to fend for ourselves. Faith that he will provide and take care of us and that he will do what is right. God's help is near and ALWAYS available, BUT...is only given to those who seek it.

What I don't understand is why it is so hard to have faith and to believe.

For as long as I can remember I have always known and believed that God existed and have never questioned that belief. Even before I became a Christian I knew. It is just not something I have ever doubted.

It is the "ultimate" faith that I wonder if I would have if put to the test. Could I build an ark based on the belief that it would flood. Could I sacrafice one of my children on faith alone? I do not know.

But I do know that I have the ultimate faith that God exists and that He sent his son to die for our sins and that by believing in Him and living for Him, I will be saved.

Because we as "intellegent" human beings, have to be able to reason and calculate and figure everything out. You simply cannot do that when it comes to God's ways...his thoughts are so much above our understanding. And I also think it is because we have been geared to have faith and believe in things that we can "see" and are tangible. Even when we see things that God has miraculously done or provided...so many people want to pass them off as coinsidence...or a result of a "man". It is very complex this thing of belief!

And yet people are so quick to say "How could God do this to me" when something bad happens and not give thanks when something good happens.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober,putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

We have this all to look forward to working in faith. With faith my wife trusted him to not let her suffer with pain and blindness. With faith he has kept me going since he took her. With out faith he loved and would carry me I would not have been able to go on. I would have ended it all 3 years ago if I had not had faith in God and Jesus christ.

Jimmy

The hopelessness of those who do not have faith has got to be such a burden. The strength your wife had, Jimmy, to KNOW that He would not let her suffer. To be able to pray and to know that He will answer your prayers is such a comfort.

Philippians 4:4-6 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

And that is where the "FAITH" comes in!!!

That is so true. To know that He is listening and responding.

That is a good one for both of us isn't it Vanessa, with our boys. To know there is a reason for it all and if we just continue to pray that all will work out. We MUST have faith in this even in what we see as the darkest times.

wow this is a wonderful thread. I have believed in God all of my life. I don't think I've ever doubted Him. my preacher was preaching the other day and brought up a very true thing that I'd like to share. He said that people who aren't really christians or people who don't usually pray, only pray when they need something. I find this to be very true. he also said something else that is true. he said that the other day on the news like on CNN or something when the reporters were reporting on Katrina, the mayor of mississippi or something said a prayer on television for the victims. I don't see anything wrong with that but my preacher made a very good statement. he said...."I thought that praying wasn't aloud in public anymore? I thought that you weren't supposed to put it on tv or anything?" that's a very good point right there.

Triss...because of my faith, I question very little anymore. That was a hard one for me when Dayne died at the young age of 19...I wanted ANSWERS...I wanted to know WHY and I wanted to know NOW!!! Well...that was a long journey for my faith to grow to the point that I don't question anymore...I just have faith that God knows what he is doing and all will work out for HIS purpose.....if I did not believe that, I would be tormented right now questioning why I ended up with this baby, why I cannot get him to the help he needs, why, why, why....the list would be never ending.

i know that i am in the minority, and that i have become more of an observer on this site thatn a participant, but i felt that i wanted to write in this thread. you ask what faith is and it is the knowledge that even though we seem to be scrounging around in the dark we KNOW with every fiber of our being that we are not alone and that we are here for a reason and we that we must fulfill our purpose. we must serve G-d, do as He asks of us and pass this faith/knowledge onto our children and their children's children forever. this past summer has been very difficult one for the religious Jews in israel. the government gave away land that, as religious Jews, we believe belongs to us given by G-d. it is a true test of faith to see something like this happen. it probably went by unnoticed in the "outside" world but over here it was a hearbreaking experience to see people who had complete faith that they were doing G-d's work in G-d's land being carried out of theeir homes against their will because the government decided to give their land and homes to palestinians - some of whom have killed or injured these same families that were taken away. i am sorry that htis may sem political. it is not. what i am trying to say that it was a great test of faith. the people wer taken out, and they still have complete faith in G-d. instead of being angry, these people have taken it upon themselves to build up new religious communities or move into cities and become a religious influence.
with faith you can never give up hope.

Hinda... I wanted to start this topic in hopes to bring people together. I am glad you posted here. And I wanted to let you know that what happened in what we know as the Gaza strip was not unseen by us here in America. We sat and watched on the news and felt so much heartbreak for the families who were carried out of their homes. One of the things I noticed many times was that as people were being carried away it was with calm, tears and some anger yes, but the calmness is what struck me.

Vanessa, I like you questioned a lot when I lost my brother and sis in law at their very young age. I wanted the answers as well. And when I found out abotu Zack I was also very hurt and angry, but have since been able to put it all in God's hands, knowing that He knows better than I and HE gave me Zack for a very good reason, as He did all of my beautiful children.

Hinda...that is a HUGE test of faith...and like Triss, you must know that it did not go unoticed here. Watching the scriptures be fulfilled is sometimes the hardest of the journey because we know it will not be easy.....but...at least WE KNOW..the rest of the story!

Where is that in the scriptures Vanessa? As you know I am elarning my way through the Bible and would like to read about that specifically. Thanks!

Triss...I was kind of generalizing there...because there are signs of the end times all around us. In Revelations 4~6...it very specifically talks about the national powers that we see hell bent for destruction - amassing weapons, killing and being killed...these are not the "ultimate" power. Nor or the individual figures that rule in our lives the ultimate powers. In general..mothers, fathers, pastors, teachers, politicians, soldiers...etc...they will all one day stand powerless before God. So, even though the government may have given the Palestinians land that is rightfully the Religious Jews....they WILL stand before God and answer for their actions. You can read all through Deuteronomy, Psalms, Ecclesiasstes, Jeremhiah & Acts about what God has to say about judgement. (I can give you exact scripture references if you would like) We may have to live under the law that is set before us...but no matter what...ultimately, in the end...Gods judgement WILL prevail, and that is where our "faith" comes in to play. I have no idea if I am explaining my thoughts correctly or not...
The Old Testement completely confirms the New Testement.....

Yes it makes sense to me. I personally would love the scriptures.

K....get your reading glasses on!

Dueteronomy 32:36, Psalm 1:5; 9~8
Ecclesiastes 12:14; Jeremiah 25:31;
Acts 17:31; Romans 2:16; 1 Corinthians 6:2

Triss, these are scriptures in reference to judgement...

If you want assurance of our protection..

2 Chronicle 12:1~2; Psalm 17:8; 18:2~2
Proverbs 2:8; 2 Thessalonians 3:3

Happy Reading I love doing studies...I wish I were much more knowlegable. It seems as though I learn something brand new everytime I open the Bible!

I cannot wait to get reading. Think I need to start a journal for all of my notes. I am already learning a lot.

Triss...since this is a "new" kind of trial & error thread....let's consider some options so that we aren't just flitting around...or we can flit...that is fun as well. But I was thinking that we might want to consider either starting a study...A) of Old/ New Testement Books...maybe go through the Bible in a year type thing.

Or C) Pick a topic...marriage, family, raising teens ( ) establishing study/devotional times...

Then, those of us who want to journal would be able to organize it for future reference. What do you think?

Hhhmm...what did I do with B)......?...I need a nap!

HaHa... I am up for anything. This is all new to me as I have never led a study.

What does everyone else think?

What ever everyone is up for, I have tons of reference material that I'd be happy to share.

That is what I do not have. I am quite willing to follow as long as I am learning and reading every day.

So, it's your call...pick your passion!

I love flipping open a page and reading it..
Kinda neat sometimes when it's something
similar to what I'm going thru...

I like the idea of topical. Kinda like faith was. Maybe on a specific event or person of the Bible.

Ok I have retyped this whoel thing 3 times now. I jsut cannot make a clear decision.

One thing I have found is that it is always pertains to something.

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE
Joyce Meyer's!!!!!
She tells you like it is..
and really is really, really funnyyyyyyyy!!!

Joyce Meyer\'s Ministries

Here's some fun Bible Search too
if you know the ex: John 13...
Type it in and it takes you right there..


Bible Search

Andddddddddddddddd
Bible Verse Lookup

Thanks for those links. The second one I have been using since we started this thread, it is a great site!

Going to have to check out Joyce Meyers.

Okay Triss, so do you want to take this week and disect FAITH and then next week move to HOPE...and then following move to LOVE...etc...is that what you are thinking?

Well now that is a verse I know. I do not know the reference however. I also need to find a way to teach myself to memorize. Never has been my strong suit, even in school.

Don't know that we have to go to love next. But something you said along the way made me think that perhaps despair would be a good one.

*Triss,
Watch her on tv, she's very good..

Not sure when she's on in your area..
Mine, here, she's on at 7:30am and 12:30pm..
Cindys' was an hour and a half difference from
me..
She's on the TCT Channel....

Sounds good to me! How about you pick a new topic every week and we can all jump in? Faith this week, despair next week (yeah..I can get a jump start on that one!!) Is a week enough time for you?

Faith is perfect for this week...well any week...but this is a tough week for all!

FAITH~ Faith means being sure of the things we hope for and knowing that something is REAL even if we do not see it. Hebrews 11:1

It is a spiritual awareness of devine truth beyond the reach of empirical experience or logical proof.


Faith is a gift of God and is essential to salvation (Ephesians 2:8)

I think 1 Corinthians (13:12~13) said it pretty understanable to me.
For now we see through a glass darkly..But then face to face (by faith)

I found a little note that I had jotted in my Bible...it said...

If we loss our faith..we will do it gradually.
That was very scary to me...almost like it was a caution to Guard my faith daily.

"almost like it was a caution to Guard my faith daily."

I think that is why as leaky vessels we are to pray for the filling of the Holy Spirit daily.

A week ago Chuck Colson wrote in his Breakpoint Commentary that he found he could intellectually "prove" the existence of God because it makes sense but if he didn't accept HIM on faith then it was an unsatisfying exercise.
The article was called "The Enormous Obstacle"

BreakPoint Commentaries

Faith, hope and love - sounds like a study of the fruit of the Spirit to me and sounds like a great idea.

Hinda - the world is watching and mourning with you. The UK ceased to be a world power when they signed the white papers in 1948 and I fear that our collusion in the giving away of the Gaza may signal something equally devastating for us. I only hope that God doesn't judge us too harshly for not acknowledging that His gift to His people was meant forever and not for political whim or gain.

Bev,
Just shortened your URL.....
Just so you know!

Bev, I really enjoyed that article. A couple of things struck me and I will quote them from the article.

"This bothered me for a few weeks until I realized the problem. Pride, which was my original obstacle to becoming a Christian, was in the way again. I knew so much, but faith, you see, is beyond the intellect. You have to have doubts; otherwise, it couldn’t be faith."

"And remember that our greatest weapon against sophisticated pride is not more intellectual arguments. Instead it’s the practice of gratitude and simple faith that comes from it."

Pride and reason are indeed the greatest obstacles to faith. I think we need to be more like children because they accept so easily. I have explained to more than one of my kids that they can think of God like the wind, You may not be able to see the wind, but if you step outside you can feel it all around you. If we but open ourselves up to Him, we can feel Him all around us.

You must be "humble" in front of GOD
and all that he values, especially people....


Like when you maybe don't like someone..
but maybe your husband or a friend of yours does..
you must treat them with respect, because your friend/relative holds them to a value...
And so does GOD...
and that's the hard part sometimes when they
really have features you can not tolerate..

But you must step back from your feelings
and take your friends feelings.. (and GOD's)
and be "Humble" to that person..

We don't have to "like" anyone...BUT...we are COMANDED to love...everyone. God pretty much covered all the bases on that one....

Love your God
Love your neighbor...
Love your enemy....

I have to constantly remember that
when I visit with a friend of my husband's wife..
CONSTANTLY!!!
*
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*
*
*
*
*
*
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And trust me, it does help the situation
alot...I can do it!!!!

Some interesting links:

The Five Gospels Parallels

http://www.utoronto.ca/religion/synopsis/

This HTML presentation of the Five Gospels is designed to be a teaching tool for introductory level classes in New Testament and Christian Origins. For this reason, and because of the particular constraints of HTML, it does not offer the same level of detail as a printed synopsis (i.e. Throckmorton 1979, 1992; Aland 1985). Its advantage is that it allows more "play" than a printed synopsis and that it presents the materials in the same order as the canonical Gospels. Moreover, it offers texts that are not commonly included in the synopses designed for classroom use: Thomas and Paul. Others may follow.

It will parallel the 4 canonicals; the 4 canonicals & Thomas (aka the 5 gospels); The 5 gospels & Paul; the 3 synoptics; the Q twosome; the synoptics & Thomas.


Early Christian Writings

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

This site has almost all of Early Christianity – New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics and Fathers.

Its companion site : Early Jewish Writings

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/

Has what the title says it does and includes the Tanakh, Talmud, Josephus, Pseudepigrapha and others.

That is a good one to remember. We have to believe that people are brought into our lives for a reason, another testament to faith.


Thanks for those links Michelle. Have not had a chance to look at them yet, but I will.

The only way to stay in faith is to read or listen to God's word. This is a good thread.

Thanks Sheri, I am so enjoying it already and learning SO much. I have to admit I have never enjoyed reading the Bible as much as I am now. It is a new and very much welcome addition to my life!

Weezie - thanks for the URL fix, I'm technologically impaired and couldn't figure out how to make it shorter.

I spend a lot of time chaperoning my daughter's marching band and I also have to spend a lot of time praying that God will help me to love these children with His love because mine is insufficient. He always comes through, but just like the treasure in jars of clay, it leaks out and I have to return every time and ask again. That and stay consistent in the Word.

firstly - i wanted to say thank you very much for letting me know that the tragedy of being torn out of gaza did not go unnnoticed by the "outside world". the people are still unhoused, abandoned by the gov't here - many promises were broken and people have no houses, no schooling for their kids, no employment etc.. and no one is questioning the power of the One above, just of those down here. we must all look into ourselves and try to understand how something like this can happen. what did do to have it happen and how can we improve ourselves, and the communities around us. if we each took one step ahead in the right direction , the person next to us would help us the next step and so on and so on . just imagine......
secondly - i am keeping close eye on this thread, but i have not contributed so much (yet). i think its a great idea and i am enjoying seeing the similarities and differences between our religions.
about the topic of pride (i think thats the topic now)i do not remember where i learned this, but i remember learning that pride is a sin because you think that you deserve something - recognition, respect money etc - when you should not be thinking in those terms at all. instead you should be thinking of how you can serve G-d and how you can better yourself and bring yourself closer to G-d. you do not need the money, recognition, fame etc... to do this you must serve G-d, for you are dust, a worm small and insignificant AND at the same time you must remember that "the whole world was created for you" because you have a distinct purpose in this world, otherwise you would not be here at all. each and every one of us is integral to the way the world is. this is not an egocentrical view it is true and it is a burden rather than a freedom to expect everything to work our way and come easily to us (ie pride). we must work and fulfill our purpose whatever it may be, for that is why we are here and it can only be done by you. if you do not fulfill our duty then you have lost the "whole world that was created for you"
i hope that at lest part of that was intelligible.

Sure was Hinda. And a very good reminder to us all!

Hinda, I am enjoying your input on this thread...please continue to contribute!
Today (actually everyday) But especially today the lesson of faith has hit so strongly in my heart. Our "pride" that henders our faith comes from a "human" instinct that we feel WE have to fix, correct or take care of everything.The feeling that WE have to be in control. Although God does not expect us to sit idle and wait for things, solutions & answers to fall in our laps...he is ultimately the one in control and has his timeing planned for all things to work together so that ultimatly he is the one to receive the honor and glory for it all..not us! I have watched and waited (not patiently...but waited) for him to work out situations that honestly I have had no control over at all. Every answer that we have received has been so cleary his voice...and the moving of his very hand. I am amazed at how we can try so hard to accomplish something and when all resources have been exhausted and we get to the point that we FINALLY put it all in his hands...he is so faithful to meet our very needs. No logical explanation can be given for the things that he sets to come to pass....I am so very thankful that he loves his children in spite of ourselves! My heart is so full today.

4ruddy it is so true!! we must put in our utmost and work hard to amke things happen. it is an important concept in Judaism called effort or trying. (i actually had to look that up in the dictionary - i think i am forgetting some of my english ) without putting any effort into making things happen (whatever they may be) we cannot expect anything to happen. G-d will not help you if you do not work for it. and of course, we may want somethin that is not good for us (even if we think it is a good thing at the time), in thatcase, of course, we will be helped - juse not inthe mamnner that we were expecting. like one Rabbi told me - our prayers are always answered, but he answer isn't always "yes".
a few years ago, right after i got married i realized that i was going to have problems getting pregnant. we wnated to hae kids right away (and we still look forward to a houseful) and so we went to dr.s and tried to set things straight. but hings didnt work out so easily and after three years i got pregnant onlyto lose the baby a the end of the sixth month. and all the time we were praying for kids and for the strength to get through this. after the miscarriage, we were so sad. but together we walked out into the world a stronger couple ready to face whatever cam our way. and you know what three onths later i ws pregnant. a year after i had our beautiful girl , i ws pregannt again (boy that was a comlete surprise!) and now we have two amazing angels living wiht us. what i am trying to say (albeit probably too lengthily) is that we must do our part and G-d will Help us a long, but we mustn't doubt that the help will come - we cannot fathom His reasoning and intricate lacework of the world.
looking back at it now, we neede those first four years before our daughter was born to become stronger and grow in our faith. all we have to do is look at our children and know that miracles happen and that G-d is listening to our every cry. He is our Father, our King.

i ralize now, that most of what i am writing is probably not why the thread was started. trss started this out as a bible study group, and i would love actualy study parts of the bible with you instead of just my babbling. i also realize that my hours are different thatn most of yours so i kind of catch this thread at stange times for most everyone else. anyway, is there a specific topic and we discuss or a part of the bible to read and then discuss or just talk about general topics and "go with the flow"
sorry if i am confusong everyone......

This is exactly why this thread was started Hinda..we ALL learn from each other. And what you have said goes along completely with the topic of faith! Even though you did not have your children at the time you thought was right...you & your husband allowed your faith in God to grow and he blessed that.Your Rabi was right, our prayers are not always answered in the way or at the time we would like, but we have faith to know that they are heard and answered....even if we don't understand. I do not understand so much of what God allows to happen in my life...but I am trusting that I can always hear his voice and be obedient and will be prepared for what he has for me to do...

Hinda,

I think that the lack of structure and one topic leading to another is a good way for this to go. Each week we change topics and talk about them. We will get our Bible teaching when we quote the Bible for our references and we will learn how each of us is seeing each topinc come true in our lives. Faith is such a huge thing and can be explained so many ways. Seeing it in each of our lives gives someone hope and someone else understanding.

For me, reading your last post about having to wait so long for children reaffirms the fact that I am so blessed by God to be able to have all of mine. It also humbles me to know that not all people have such an easy time of having children but still have the faith to continue trying, knowing that the Lord will bless them when the time is right. It also reminds me to tell my children how lucky and how blessed we are to have them in our lives.

I have been reading the threads on faith. I wanted to let you know that this topic is helpful to me. I don't know that I will be much of a contributor but I will be reading.

I am the mother of 6 children, 3 of whom have died. I believed, I just didn't think God believed in me. If that makes any sense whatsoever. Then I was told a little parabel by a person in AA about faith. It goes like this....

Say you go to the circus....and the high wire act comes up in one of the rings. At the end of the high wire is a performer with a wheelbarrow. There is no net under the high wire. Now you know this performer is a professional and probably has practiced pushing the wheelbarrow across the high wire many times. You are sure the performer will cross the high wire with the wheelbarrow and not fall. That is faith. Trust is when you crawl into the wheelbarrow without being asked.

So I had to learn to trust that God has good things in store for me. I had to learn to trust that God didn't make bad things happen. I have to have faith and trust together in order to have true faith. I know that isn't biblically based but it helped me.

I fully believe that people are put in our path who are there to help us to think and to grow stronger in our faith. What you got from that person at AA was something you needed to have your faith grow.

Hope to see you posting here more, everyone has something to contribute!

Oh I agree about God putting people in my path. Part of the "still small voice" I failed to heed over the years.

I will probably be asking questions.....

how strnage but as the expresion goes "their is no such thing as a coincidence" ( a refernce to G-d's intricate yet non-understandable masterplan) a few days ago i started writing an essay about faith (one one of my many projects that i am doing this year for college)and when i was looking through some books on the topic i came across two words in hebrew thati had used interchangably for faith. BUT when i looked at the definitions closely i realized thati was mistaken for using them interchangably. translated one was faith and the other was trust. here are the definitions
faith "the term faith denotes absolute belief in divine providence,in G-d's unfailing goodness, in his aid and deliverance in times of distress....Rabbi Avraham Isaac Kook (1864 - 1935) declares that faith is the song of life"
trust - there is no definition per se about truts but says "He who trusts in G-d fears no man (Bahya ibn Pakuda) and brings in Jeremiah 17:7-8, and Habbakuk3:17-19

faith is more general and trustis more personal, just like in the circus parable you gave fernie, i liked it a lot!

And that is what it all comes down to in the end. Absolute belief.

Fernie...I have a little heart shaped plaque on my kitchen wall..I got one for myself and one for my sister a few weeks after my son's death...becuase I very vividly remember saying over & over.."I can't do this"....it wasn't until about 3 months after his accident that I was reminded of a few of things...
1.) I had placed my children in God's hands when they were very young.

2.) His timing is VERY different than my own.

2.) Our goal is eternal life...why, for my selfish reason's would I want to DENY my son to be in the arms of our maker....

So, the little plaque on the wall says this:

Faith makes things possible....
not easy!

I very much like your plaque.

I have a plaque that is about trust. It is Psalm 91:1,2.

I didn't realize that trust was such a big issue of faith for me until I was given the circus story. It made me realize that while I always believed and had a faith of sorts, I hadn't had trust. It makes a difference.

Thanks so much for this topic, it has been so helpful.

It is very interesting that we all look at things so differently. When it comes to the Lord, I can interchange faith and trust and it all comes out the same in the end.

When it comes to people, I think very differently. I have both faith and trust in relatively few people I know, but many fall into one category or the other.

but that is where you refer back to the one
post I made about how GOD wants us to be
obient to him and to be humble..

GOD VALUES those people and because you value
GOD, you need to go the extra mile and value
the people GOD VALUES!!

I know it's hard sometimes..
Ther'es that one wife of my husbands', friend..
*Did I word it right this time*
when I have got to constantly repeat that to myself...

I am highlighting the bible verses mentioned in my study bible.

Weezie....just because I love people, does that mean I have to trust and have faith in them? That would be most difficult. I try very hard not to judge but having faith in people???

Like Fernie I agree, I MUST love them, but that is not always faith and trust.

Must we have faith and trust in everyone we meet?

Brings about another question. Just how many people would you entrust your children's care to? Who has your faith that they will care for your children as you do? Who would you trust to make critical decision's for you if you were not able to?

We are but human and it is with God's grace that we are allowed to make mistakes and fall so short of His glory. Yet He allows for those mistakes, something we as people have a very hard time doing. Only He is able to not only forget but to also forgive. And while that completely boggles my mind, I KNOW that it is true. Just as I know I have to work very hard every day of my life to aspire to His greatness.

I just found this thread, very cool idea.

Unconditional love yes I can get that. Agape, I always think of the precious babies I have treated realizing that some of them grow up to do evil things.

Think how sad some of the mothers are when their precious child grows up to become a criminal.

Unconditional faith and trust in GOD yes. A person? I think that these are too and 2 different things.

I think you can value a person as a fellow human being, but I would not trust that he had the same morals as me, murders, rapists, etc.

To me the saddest pictures were the ones showing the people that knew the soldiers that were evacuating them. The soldiers and the people hanging on to each other sobbing, very heart wrenching.

LOL! Triss we posted at the same time!!

I saw that one rue

Think of how sad God must be when He looks down and sees how the people of His world treat one another. His pain and sorrow must be great.

Yes.

There is so much love, empathy on this forum, it is wonderful. Wish there was some way we could spread it around the world.

Ahh..Agape love...that is a study all of it's own!

Yes, we are comanded toLOVe one another...actually everyone as I stated in another post....BUT....

We are not comanded to condone other's lifestyles or wrong behaviours. This is a VERY hard lesson. For instance...I have mentioned my father before...he was an ordained minister...but was NOT a "good" person....I had a lot of issues with that and after I was grown went to talk to my pastor because..the 10 comandments for instance..."Honor you father & Mother" ...how was I suppose to do THAT? Well...you can love someone even if you do not agree or even like their lifestyle, beliefs or action. (does that make sense?) Even as you were talkong about children who have godly parent, Christian homes...and do not follow that path...you do not have to agree, condone or as I stated before...even like their actions...but we are still comanded to love...not trust, not put faith in...just love. I personally have step children that I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw them...and do not condone their behaviour or actions...but...I love them.

On person at a time. We are already sharing it here and in doing so are reminding ourselves to share it with others. Each person we touch will touch another and so on and so on.

rue...look back on just this ONE thread...
North Carolina
Nebraska
Arkansas
New York
Texas
Indianna
Georgia
California
ISREAL

I think we are getting a pretty good start on it!!!!

Yes we sure are.

A proposal. Since we need to start a new topic with every 100 posts, how about we start a new subject then as well. We can always carry over to a 2nd thread if the need arises.

You go girl...lead the way and we will all jump in!

the question:

What I don't understand is why it is so hard to have faith and to believe

What always got me in the past was the thought. Who made GOD?

That is until one night when I was severely distressed, scared, sobbing, thinking about my own mortality I prayed that I have faith. The thoughts were barely formed in my mind when this warm, cozy feeling came over me.

I had immediate ultimate peace!

It is very hard to discribe the feeling, you just have to experience it.

Then a few years later I was boistered again while watching the 700 club. Pat Robertson (he is only human and victim to all our faults too)was praying and mentioned a person with right foot pain. (I had right foot pain for a few years that could not be explained, not planter facsitis, etc.).

I immediately thought. He is talking about me!! Right then my foot started burning, lasted a few minutes, seconds not really sure!

The pain was gone and has never come back!!!!!

Ok one more. I was in a religous book club group, a lone protestant in a group of catholics. We happened to be discussing Madgaory (spelling?) sightings. I didn't believe and they were trying to convince me that I should.

I was running through the information one day trying to decide if I believed in this last sighting of Mary. I was really disstressed about the fact that they were so adamant.

I put all the articles I was reading down and frying bacon LOL! and a voice, not my own said.

"This is not of your concern." (I don't talk like that)

And then that same WARMTH and PEACE like you would not believe. I have not worried about it since.

I agree....you lead, we'll follow.

Amazing rue. You are blessed to have your belief confirmed in so many ways!

Charlie is sick tonight, allergies, asthma, something or another and he was miserable. I was rocking him and praying that he would find some relief, praying that he would breath easier, praying that we could both get some sleep. The whole time I was talking out loud cuz my voice calms him. I started praying for all of the people who are having such a difficult time right now, all of my friends in need and during those prayers, he finally calmed down and settled into a peaceful sleep. My prayer was answered not as I was asking for us, but asking for others and that struck me as something I wanted to share before I headed off to bed.

You know Triss...that made me think this morning. It is really when we get our eyes off of "ourself" and try to meet the needs of others that we often see the desires of our heart and prayers answered. It is VERY difficult when you are in need...to put that aside and concentrate on the needs of others....I think that is part of what has been happening in my situation. I have been so focused on what "I" needed as far as getting help for the baby...that it has overwhelmed me. Not that I haven't been praying for the needs of others...I just have not been putting the effort forth to put some of those thing first. Did that make sense? So..I am re-focusing...and regrouping today!

A long time ago I came to the realization that if I lost one of my children it would be Peter, my middle child and the child of my heart. I rebelled against that thougth for years and finally just over three years ago was brought to the point of submission and gave him back to God, with the request that when he died he go in my arms.

When my oldest son called me and told me that Peter was hurt (not 5 minutes after leaving the house) I got there as fast as I could - maybe 3 or 4 minutes and he was lying in the street convulsing. There was a crowd watching but no one was near him and I couldn't understand why. As I got out of the car I said "Peter, Mommy is here, everything will be ok". He was unconcious and continued to seize. I sat on the ground and pulled his head onto my lap, he was gasping for breath, seizing, eyes rolling - it was the most dreadful thing I had ever seen in my life. I had no idea what to do, so with my arms around him as best as I could without doing further damage, I began to pray out loud, thanking God for the life of this precious child. He instantly stilled, breathing normally. When I began crying so hard I couldn't pray anymore one of the people there put one hand on my shoulder and the other on Peter's head and continued to pray. The instant she said Amen he began to seize again. The only time he was still was during that prayer. Completely still.

I learned later that the hearing is the last to go so as he was leaving this life he heard my voice. I have every confidence that through faith we will see each other again some day.

Peter loved the Lord with all his heart and had publicly declared his intention to follow Him wherever He wanted him to go.

I know that's probably not what we intended for this Bible study but after reading about Triss praying her young one to sleep I felt lead to share about praying with Pete. I didn't pray him into heaven (other than a life of praying for him) but I think he heard my voice as he was meeting the Lord.

Bev...I am certain he heard your voice...I would have loved to have had that oppertunity with Dayne. But, I believe he hears me still.

I just read an interesting little story about a man on an airplane...they had hit some turbulence and the stewardes had asked the passengers to be seated until they passed through it. Not heeding her request...she repeated it in a more "serious" tone. The next voice they heard was that of the pilot...he repeated the request and then stated "Let's be very clear about OUR responsibilities...My job is to get you through the storm, your job is to do what I say, now sit down and buckle up!"
about that time the bathroom door opened up and a red faced fellow with a sheepish grin exited and took his seat.
Was the pilot wrong in what he did? Was he being insensitive or unthoughtful? No, just the opposite. He would rather have the man be safe and embarrassed than uniformed and hurt. Good pilots DO what it takes to get their passengers home. So does God. Here is the key question, How far do you want God to go to get your attention? If God has to chose between your eternal safety and your earthly comfort, which do you hope he chooses? Don't answer too quickly...give it some thought.
If God sees you standing when you should be sitting, if God sees you at risk rather than safe, how far do you want him to go at getting your attention?

When you were in trouble, you called, and I saved you.
I answered you with thunder. Psalm 81:7

Bev, Thank you for sharing that story. I am very sure that your son heard you and knew you were there beside him, praying for him and I am sure that made leving you a little easier for him.

As for your story not being what this study is all about, I disagree. Things like that are EXACTLY what this is all about. The last thing I want is for anyone to think they cannot share any of their stories of faith. I think it helps us all to understand one another better and is so often "not allowed" in other settings.

So please everyone, keep sharing!