A Gardeners Forum Forums Gardening Reference Gardening in 2004 2 questions, not related {save}

#1 My husband and I were talking about the garden that I'm putting in this spring and he brought something to my attention that I had totally neglected to think about. My original idea was to put a nice little fence around the veggie garden. Something about 3' tall....totally to make it look nice. Not at all functional. What didn't I think about? The deer that come down the mountain and walk right through our yard. So, now the fence has to be tall enough to keep deer out of my veggies...but it wouldn't be as easy as putting up a tall fence (is anything ever that easy??). Since we live on the side of a mountain, the sun doesn't pop into my yard until at least 10 in the morning in the summer (around 11 or so in the spring). So the fence has to be something that the sun can get through to get to the veggies during the rest of the day. I don't wan chain link fence, because I really do hate it. Not saying its not nice, but I grew up in the city and we always had chain link fencing....I hate it. So, I need something to keep the deer out....but something pretty. HELP!! Oh...we thought of putting a deer feeder at the rear of the yard to keep the deer out of the garden. We'd keep the feeder full during the summer.

#2 I want to put an arbor in my yard above a pathway that we have that goes from the house to the garage that is at the rear of the yard. The pathway is made of stone that was laid. There is a hill in the middle of the yard and there are steps that go up the hill to the next level of the yard. I want to put the arbor over the steps so that as the flowers grow up the arbor, I'll be able to see the flowers on the top of the arbor. I bought plans for an arbor online (actually, I got them for free with a coupon from the welcome wagon). Will it be easy to adapt the plans for the slope of the hill?? I thought I had a pic of the steps on my site, but I don't...just a pic of the few steps to the very rear of the yard. There are about 10 steps that are like regular stairs on the hill that I want the arbor. Any help or advicve would be great. I'll be sure to post pictures when we get the arbor built.

Hi Jennifer,
#1. Deer can jump up to 8' if they really want what you have! Here's an unobtrusive deer fence.

http://www.bennersgardens.com/bg/

#2. You'll have to adjust the length of the legs to the same degree of angle of the slope. You'll need a bevel gauge. Probably a larger one than here, but if you lay a long piece of wood, say a 2 by 4, on the slope, you should be able to lengthen the legs that will sit at the bottom of the slope. Am I explaining this properly? I hope you understand what I'm thinking. It's in my head, now I hope it's on the computer screen!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004T7RC/guillemotkayaks/103-7373172-2019036

Newt

Why do I need to lengthen the legs on the bottom of the slope but not the ones on the top? Wouldn't that make the arbor straight across the top?? I want the top of the arbor to be sloped to match the slope of the hill and stairs. I will take a picture of the stairs today and post it in the site so that you all can see the steps. Maybe doing a sloped arbor isn't a good idea??

Just thinking out loud here Jennifer....if you feed the deer during the summer isn't that going to encourage more deer to come regularly....and then their babies....and then the whole neighborhood of deer? Maybe somebody knows something about deer behavior.

I have no experience with deer but I have heard a lot of stories and if you do a forum search you might read about some of the deer stories from fellow gardeners. They are definitely jumpers.

A concern I have...you stated you would feed them during the summer....wild animal reproduction is determined by the amount of food that they can find....if you feed them during the summer and they have babies....and then if you stop feeding them during the winter there will be lack of food supply and will result in starvation/immune system deteriation/diseases....it is a domino effect for the health of the deer!

The reason I say this is because a neighbor of ours awhile back was feeding all the stray cats....well you know how they breed...this neighbor decided to move....she just dumped a couple of big bags of cat food out and left. After several massive meals over a few days the cats were pregnant and then .....NO FOOD except for avocadoes that had fallen to the ground! The kittens were malnutritioned as well as the adults, some were coughing because their immune systems were lowered and death by starvation of several kittens. Well I couldn't watch this going on soooo reluctantly I started humanely trapping the feral cats and calling the pound where they were eventually put down. Humane societies will not release feral cats.... it was really hard for me to do

Jennifer, I never thought of the arbor with a slope to it. I would think that a sloping arbor, with the weight of the vine, would tend to fall over more easily, especially when it's wet from rain, snow or ice. If you know anyone who is a construction engineer, you might want to ask them. Hmm, wonder if there is a forum for that kind of question.

Newt

Jennifer,
I think what Karen is trying to say... is she, and we, as gardeners love the deers as animals that spend time out into the fields and look lovely out there . And as much as we enjoy them to watch from a distance, once they start coming down into your area/land/spot/property/backyard/etc. there's no getting them out....
They can shred certain plants of yours to the ground!!! (Believe it or not, they just love the heck out of roses and will give your roses a hair cut like you've never seen.....How they do that with the thorns and all is a total amazement to me!!)
And if you start drawing them into your area by feeding them, and you're not putting enough out,
2 things start to happen, #1. they come into your yard where you don't have the fences, and eat those things, like when you're at work, or picking kids up from school, or at a bridal shower, or mostly when you're sleeping!!!
You can't really put up a fence around everything you own...
#2. What Karen is talking about is once they become dependant on you feeding them, they become to expect it, and as she said then in turn their little ones may start to starve...or become too numerous to feed....

Also, in my state, (*I'm not sure about it from state to state) but a lady is doing jail time and a fine for PURPOSELY feeding the deer here in (*I'm pretty sure it's in Tonawanda.)... She didn't want them to starve... I can see her side, she'd rather have them fed than die a slow death..But unfortunately it is the survival of the fittest!! And when the diseased ones' breed, they don't produce healthy offspring.... I'm saying this chain of events happens, everywhere,
not just your backyard.

But would it be better off, just not to feed them and try to discourage them from coming close to your home's immediate surroundings....

We have had several, several discussions on such..
FORUM SEARCH will bring up several posts on such.
Many opinions on it...

Also, here's some info Bill has here on the site about it, Keeping Deer Out of Your Garden

Deer deterrent

And the only thing I've heard of working for keeping them out is, that deer will never walk where they are not assured of their footing...
If fencing, or something is layed on the ground, and one of their footsteps either doesn't feel right *Foreign substance/unnatural type object* or if that foot step produces a movement close to him on the ground he didnt' make himself it startles him or spooks him... Does that make sense...

And It will never go near a plant that when stepped on, or crushed, or eaten it will produce a smell or scent that will make it so he can't smell his preditors'/enemies close by...........
(*ie: Alliums)


Weezie

P.S. Here's an article from my state about feeding deers.....
Information Sheet on deer feeding regulations

Then do you think that a string with some clanky cans on it would be enough to keep them out? ...along with my pretty fence (that i still have yet to figure out what I want) Or what about putting some piled rocks...about 3' wide around the garden. It could be the beginnings of a rock garden?? As far as I know, its not illegal to feed the deer in PA. Alot of the people who live up in the mountains feed the deer (not large amounts of food. Just enough to get them to stay in the area). They are not allowed to feed them during hunting season because that would be luring the deer to the area that the hunter would be in. And that was the thought behind putting a feeder up. We wouldn't be putting a massive amount of feed out. Just small amounts...amounts small enough to keep them away from my fence. Our area is pretty populated and according to the foot prints in the snow, there aren't many deer coming through the yard. There are some fields around us that I think the deer go to to eat their meals and such. I just don't want to go through the hard work of starting seeds and making my veggies grow and then have deer eat it all. Oh....we have rose bushes in the back or the yard and they don't eat them. We have the kind that start out light pink and then get darker and darker as they mature.

I forgot to put down other thoughts for the arbor. The posts would be set in holes that are filled with concrete to have them stay where they would need to stay. I was wrong when I said there were like 10 steps...it must just FEEL like 10 steps!! There's really only like 5. I took pictures, but the camera dock got unplugged from the computer lastnight when it was pulled out from under the desk, so I need to wait until Stephen gets home from work so he can plug it back in before I can show you the steps.

hey jennifer, here are my thoughts on both your questions.

#1. no deer feeder. they can and will discover that when the feeder is empty, if they wander around, they will find your garden and other plants anyway. if you want to go a route like that, just plant some "deer friendly" plants in the back. but if you are really worried about it, i wouldn't even do that.

to discourage them, what seems to be the most effective from what i read is fishing line at different hights with old/demo (read aol?) cd's strung on it. that way you know where it is, and if it is at variable hights, the deer have a hard time deciding where it is "safe" to jump over it. and you preserve the beauty of the garden because the cd's act as suncatchers and the string isn't quite visible.


#2. on your arbor, you might want it to slope gently, but you don't want it to completely match the slope of the hill or it might a - get lost in the visual and b- even posts set in concrete will bend or warp.

just thoughts...

Jiffymouse,
Great idea to plant for the deer to eat. Here's a list of plants for deer, hummers and butterflies.

http://www.waysidegardencenter.com/pdf/perennials.pdf

Newt

WE use the cd's too!!!
I had a raised bed, and them, and no pilfering
from anyone!

I love them, used them back to back, so you couldn't see what garbage was on the one side
when they twisted in the wind...

Weezie

Great idea about the cds! I wonder if they would keep squirrels and chipmunks away as well?

Hmmm....now if only someone would tell me what snakes don't like. I have a family of them living in my stone wall, along with the chipmunks!

Mind you, I'm no chicken....but there is a limit! I HATE when I'm gardening and suddenly they are just THERE!! I just don't like being....surprised!