A Gardeners Forum Forums Members History Forum Life 2005 Bible Study II - Despair

That is great Vanessa. Gave me a good laugh this morning.

I was told not to drive the bus. God is the driver, I am just the passenger, whenever I try to drive, things go whacky and it is a bus wreck! So I try to remember not to drive the bus.

Great metaphor Fernie.

He is in control and if we can always rememebr that, I am sure our lives would run a lot smoother.

i know that i havent written much )(or rather anythingthis wek - its been hectic here) but i just wanted to knoe when you change the topics . i know its the beginning of the week, but whicj day is that. i know that sounds starnge but for me sunday is a regular work day, so i wanted to know which day you start a new topic. please dont stop this thread - i am relaly enjoying it even if i dont participate in it all the time.

Hinda...I think the plan is not to change the topic until we reach 100 posts..(is that correct Triss?)

I wanted to share something I came across in my studies this morning! In light of what I have been going through I thought is was VERY timely. And also on track with our discussions here. I received a whole new encouragement from it...and hope you do as well!

Malachi 3:3 says: "He will sit as a refiner and
> > purifier of
> > silver."
> >
> > This verse puzzled some women in a Bible study
> and
> > they wondered
> > what this
> > statement meant about the character and nature of
>
> > God.
> >
> > One of the women offered to find out the process
>
> > of refining
> > silver and get
> > back to the group at their next Bible Study.
> >
> > That week, the woman called a silversmith and
> made
> > an appointment
> > to watch
> > him at work. She didn't mention anything about
> > the reason for her
> > interest
> > beyond her curiosity about the process of
> refining
> > silver. As she
> > watched
> > the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over
> > the fire and let
> > it heat up.
> > He explained that in refining silver, one
> needed
> > to hold the
> > silver in the
> > middle of the fire where the flames were
> hottest
> > as to burn away
> > all the
> > impurities.
> >
> > The woman thought about God holding us in such
> a
> > hot spot; then
> > she thought
> > again about the verse that says: "He sits as a
> > refiner and
> > purifier of
> > silver."
> >
> > She asked the silversmith if it was true that he
>
> > had to sit there
> > in front
> > of the fire the whole time the silver was being
> > refined. The man
> > answered
> > that yes, he not only had to sit there holding
> the
> > silver, but he
> > had to keep
> > his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in
> > the fire. If the
> > silver was
> > left a moment too long in the flames, it would be
>
> > destroyed.
> >
> > The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked
>
> > the
> > silversmith, "How do
> > you know when the silver is fully refined?"
> >
> > He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's
> easy
> > -- when I see my
> > image in
> > it"
> >
> > If today you are feeling the heat of the fire,
> > remember that God
> > has his
> > eye on you and will keep watching you until He
> sees
> > His image in
> > you.


We have talked about the trials that bring us to despair...and all of the reasons we must go through them...no matter what they are. I think God is allowing me to see that I should be "thankful" for the refining he has been attempting to do to me. It is certainly difficult to be thankful when you cannot see the big picture and do not understand the process!

Yes hinda, 100 posts or close to that. Then we will change topic but it will alwasy be listed with the title Bible Study...

WOW Vanessa, that is totally awesome! Gave me the chills just reading it.

So if we think about it like that, our trials are not meant to break us, but make us stronger. People say that all the time, but it makes a whole lot more sense in this light.

It brought tears to my eyes thinking of God watching for a reflection of His image in me. Good analogy Vanessa.

Very much makes you want to do better does't it!

That is really beautiful Vanessa. We are to made in God's own image and are to strive to be Christlike but I never thought of God looking at us and seeing his image. That's a lot to think about.

It very much makes me ashamed that I HAVEN'T been doing better....

Remember Vanessa, God is MOULDING is in His image. We are far from perfect and will always have faults.

I wonder how much the life style choices we make lead to despair. I know that when I am chronically busy and overtired my attitude is effected. Small problems seem big and big problems seem monumental (mental being the operative word). I wonder if we took care to do what God commanded, honor God, honor the Sabbath, honor our parents, don't do anything illegal (murder, theft, etc..) or stupid (covet and lust) and then rested like we are supposed to, if life would seem so out of control. If our quest for "things" could be satisfied with what we actually need life might seem more hopeful.

We certainly reap what we sow.

"and then rested like we are supposed to" bev - funy you should say that. this past week my husband has been working very hard - and very long hours. since we are observant Jews we keep out Sabath fully and are not allowed to do any work - not even supposed to talk aboutit - in order to make a separation between everyday things and holy things. and i must say that it was great for him. becasue you know each week that no matter what you are doing you just stop and enjoy your sabbath. we go to synagogue togethre, eat fri.nite and sabbath meals together. take wlks and spend beiutiful family time together while enjoying the spiritual side of sabbath too. no tv, no shopping - no use of electrical items directly - (ex. not alowed to turn a light on , but if the light is on a timer you can use its light) if we weren't "forced" to rest on sabbath, i could see how easy it is to lose yourself in the everday and despairing. life is not supposed to be so hectic - we must keep things in perspective and keep despair at bay.

I had no idea you had a Bible study here. How wonderful ! You all seem very lovely, caring people. Normally I just post in the recipes section, and I am fairly new here, too.
I think reading your post, hinda, has put some light onto why I feel so stressed. I have not taken time to rest as I should. You are so right, God would not have put that in His word for nothing.
May I ask you a question? How do you prepare your meals on the Sabbath then ? I always have wondered about that. Do you make things the day before and eat them cold? Things like breads and salads? I hope you do not mind me asking.

Welcome Lucy...jump right in...we are all realy enjoying this thread!
Bev...I think you & Hinda hit it exactly! I do not think we would get ourselves in quite the situations of "despait" that we do if we would listen & follow more attentively. I also believe that you are correct in taking time to rest! I am not geared to "rest"...I start feeling guilty, like I am wasting time not getting things done! When i stopped to think about it after reading your posts...it amazed me how much I am sucked in to the "world" by my own thoughts & actions! How could I be wasting time..if it is something that God considered so important that he threw it in the commandments!!!! Sheds a whole new light on just taking some time to revive ourselves...physically & spiritually every week!

Lucy Lou - welcome and if I can answer the question you asked Hinda, the Jewish sabbath begins and ends at sundown. When God created the world He said "evening and morning" were the order of the six days of creation (rest on day 7) so that remains the order of Jewish observation. This is a bit of a challenge because sunset arrives at different times depending on where you are and you have to watch for it in order to have the Sabbath meal prepared before the sun sets.

I don't think it is a huge step to compare it to watching for the return of the Messiah. We are told to be ready and watching for that day.

Hinda - do you ever employ a Sabbath goy to perform tasks that are not allowed?

Vanessa - I think we are all "geared" to rest as part of being in the image of God but somewhere along the line the world (or our mothers) made us feel that it was not productive.

Thank you for the welcome.
I knew that Sabbath started from sundown to sundown, but am curious as to what you eat. Is is prepared salads, breads, things of that nature that you just eat cold? What about washing the dishes afterwards? These are just practical things I have wondered about.

It is so hard for me, since my husband works shift work and works on our day of worship, which for us is Sunday. He works 12 hour shifts both Saturday and Sunday. It takes so much work for me to get him to be prepared for his job. I have just been having the hardest time in my life getting things done, no matter what day of the week it is. I really need a day of rest once a week, and I believe in the importance of it. It just doesn't seem possible with my husbands schedule. He must take all of his food with him, he is the only person on shift and can't order food in even, as no one is allowed without permission on the site.
I need to pray and ask God to help me with this. I believe in the power of prayer and I also believe God is concerned with the things that concern us.

I remember visiting my aunt and uncle who lived in a small southern town, were Church of God, and who rested on Sunday after church. My aunt did fix her dinner the day before but warmed everything up to eat. I can't remember if she washed dishes or not. I don't think they had a TV (maybe did) but they just sort of laid or sat around on Sunday until it was time to go back to church at night. I would like to do this too but I can't figure out how to get everything done on Saturday, errands, cleaning, yard, laundry. How did they do it?

Great line of discussion, especially after the day I have had today.

I agree that we MOVE way too much and rarely as Americans take a moment much less a day to rest. We are so busy working our 40+ hour weeks and then topping that with kids and extra stuff that the weekend is our time to put our own house in order. Yes, a lot of us go to church and hang out at home but we are all usually doing still. A day of rest is much needed.

It also brings to mind something else we do not do. After God created, he looked back on what he did and saw that it was good. How often do we look back on our days and see the good we did. We are always so geared up and planning on what has to be done next, worry about what we did not get done, we never look back and say that it was good.

It is no wonder we are so easily susceptible to despair.

Triss, good thought about looking at what we have accomplished and think how good it is !
I have been canning and canning and canning. I was so pleased today, and thanked God for the cupboard full of food to feed my family with. It is just my husband and I, but I give to my daughter for her family, too. I will share a little with my brother and sister in law, too. They are missionaries and currently in Estonia. They will be home before the holidays.
I hope that God looks down upon me and says, it is good ! What more could we ask for than for God to be pleased with us ?
The discussion here has really been making me think all day about how I can simplify or at least prepare more ahead than I already do for having a day of much needed rest.

lucy - since sabbath starts really on friday night we prepare food on fri (even thurs if sabbath starts early in the winters). we heat the food up on a "platta" (a large flat electric food heater - its not so hot but it keeps fod warm) but because we can only use electricity that we did not turn on on sabbath , we must eithr have apresenttimer aor have it on the whole sabbath. we generally eat soup then fish/chicken/meat and sidedishes of cooked and fresh veggies, andf different types of souffles. sort of like thnskgsgiving dinner (i think), during the day it is traditional to use a crckpot and cook a stew from fri before sundown. we do use electricity just not directly (there are A LOT) of intricate rules and regulations that you can ask more of but thats the basics. washing dishes - you cannot use hot water becase then you would caseumore hot water to be heated up and you must use a special sponge (another rule that is not allowed becaseu it is considered "work" - work being defined as an action that was done in the disly rituals of the Holy Temple)
bev - we do not have a shabbat goy around here, we live amongst arab villages and we arent about to invite them anywhere near our home - they arent o frienly (sorry if i offended anyone but those are the facts of life around here) if we do need someone we find a child under the age of three hwo does not understnd the condept of things that arent allowed on shabbat - our youngest is 2 1/2 but he alrezdy knows not to touch certain things on shabbat so last week when he turned the fan of he didnt want ot rturn it back on so we had a pretty hot afternoon.... oh well. i cant complain he's learned well

i forgot to say that the sponge is somethign that you cant squeeze - because wring ing something out is not allowed

Hinda, thank you for the good information on how you do things for Sabbath. I find it so interesting. I always learn so much from others.
I have had friends from other countries and I am always fascinted by them all.
I truly appreciate you answering my questions. There are probably many more questions I could ask. However, I will try to stick with the conversation here.
I am happy to have found each of you here !
Today I got a call from a friend whom I had not spoken with in many months. Just our lives have been busy doing other things. She and her husband desire children so badly. She told me they lost a baby and have been unable to conceive again. My heart just broke for them. They would be great parents.
I know you were talking about dispair. All I could do was try to comfort her and then give her hope that God hears our cries. I remember how Hannah was barren, and even Elizabeth, for so many years. Yet, in His time, God gave them children. I told my friend to keep on hoping, to not despair. That God was in control and sometimes we may not understand His plan, for we cannot see the future, as God can. I tried to leave her with a feeling of trust in God's plan.
Still, it is hard to know my friend is mourning.So, I am awake in the middle of the night, praying and asking God to comfort my friends heart.
Again, thanks everyone for listening and answering my questions.
Blessings upon you.

Hinda - sorry, the Sabbath gentiles I have been familiar with have been Christian believers who were glad to be of assistance to their Jewish neighbors, I forgot about the strain between neighbors where you are.
Lucy Lou - we have some very devout people in my church and they prepare Sunday dinner the day before (usually sandwiches) and eat off paper plates. I have a young friend who will not eat out on Sunday because it causes someone else to work. I, on the other hand, am happy to eat out on Sunday or any other day of the week.
You are wise to pray for your friend, especially in the night, those are the worst hours. I had friends whose prayer presence I felt holding me up and sustaining me in the night hours when grief is strongest. Friends who have not been able to give birth tell me that most often it's the thoughtless things that others say that wound the most - joking about how easy it was for them or how lucky they are to not have to change diapers, etc... or the well-meaning things that are said like keep trying when every month they are reminded of their inadequacy. It is truly a mystery to me why wonderful people are not able to conceive and others who abuse and abandon their children are able to.
Triss I almost never think to look back and reflect on the good things I have done.
When my daughter and I were seeing a Christian therapist after Pete died (she was there too) he suggested writing down every compliment that someone paid me so that I would have a written record that life was not as bleak as it appeared. I was stunned when I finally followed his advice for a week at the number of comments I would have forgotten if I hadn't carried a little notebook that week. It still brings a smile to my face when I look at it.