A Gardeners Forum Forums Members History Forum Life 2005 Bible Study II - Despair

I wanted to leave a few spaces open on the topic of FAITH and give anyone room to wrap it up while we start to think about the new topic.

NEW TOPIC: DESPAIR

In looking online and through my own Bible, the story of Job really shows to me a lot about despair. I have not read the entire story yet but that is my plan for this next section of our study as I am sure it will show, based on what I have read so far that even in our deepest despair, we must put our fate in the Lord"s hands so that He may deliver us. In my Bible there is a passage before the Book of Job starts.

“Job presents a striking example of the news behind the news – of God at work behind the scenes of human suffering. After numerous attempts by Job and his friends to uncover the reasons for his suffering, God himself enters the dialog with a majestic description of his power and love. As you read this book, realize that God may not answer all your questions about life"s suffering; realize too that God does control Satan, who can go no further than the Lord allows”

This is what's so wonderful about the Bible. Each of us can have our own take on things as long as it's appropriate.

I've never thought of Job as a book of despair. I would put it under the faith category, or rather lack of faith category. I've always thought that because Job thought "that which I feared most has come upon me" that his lack of faith is why this was allowed. His lack of faith is how the devil was able to work his mischief. Job 26:7 is my favorite verse in the Bible. This one verse shows the awesomeness of God.

He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Sheri, you are so right. I have been reading the book all day long and have gained a whole new outlook on the story.

What I did originally was to look up despair in a concordance. That brought me to Chapter 3 of Job and in reading just that, out of context of the rest of the book, seems to be very much about a person in absolute despair. To want the day of his birth totally wiped out seemed to me to be the bottom of despair.

So of course, I thought it would be a good place to start. And posted that. (Notice I also posted that I had not read the entire book at all)

I'd like to disagree with you that Job's lack of faith caused his woes. In the first and second chapters it states that the Lord told Satan that no other on earth was like Job in his faithfullness. Then the Lord allowed Satan to wreak havoc in Job's life to test his faith.

I'm basing that comment on what Job said about "what I feared most"...He prayed for his sons in case they didn't do it themselves. Maybe faith isn't the right word. In the end he turned out not cursing God and everything was given back. And I've always wondered about that because it wasn't the original children. Wonder how Job felt about that.

I saw that line as fear that the Lord has forsaken him, being what he feared most. And even though he thought that his worst fears had happened, he still did not curse the Lord.

He prayed for his children and gave offerings for them and had them purified. He was as concerned with his childrens righteousness as his own, as we all should be.

I have not read to the part where he got it all back. Have to work slowly and read each chapter more than once to really get it.

He lived through so much when others would have cursed the Lord for losing less. There was much reason to despair there and as a people in general we do despair over less lost.

It would be very tempting to give in to despair now with what is happening here following the hurricane. But that is the message of Job - his faith sustained him through the worst that could ever happen. His wife told him to just curse God and die because that would put an end to his misery. Instead he went to worship. To me that was the most intriguing and compelling part of the whole book. He lost everything but he worshiped God anyway. David did the same thing when his child with Bathsheba died.

In the end all is restored to Job, his children aren't replaced, he just has more. I think we would all agree that love is astonishing in it's ability to spread and increase. The loss of those children cannot be made up for with replacement children but he can love and care for the young ones as he did for his older ones. And truthfully, the need to care for the children that we have or new babies that are born does help us to focus on what we have and not solely on what we have lost.

His friends exhibited false righteousness in their desire to blame. Job, because he did not sin, was able to argue with God and God spoke to him. It's a wonderful book of loss, love and redemption.

I know I don't post much on here but this is first palce I come and get caught up on my reading. You have no idea how much you ladies have helped me just by posting the way you have been. I agree Job is a great book of total faith in God regardless of what happens to you. I know your probably sick of hearing about my Billie but when she passed away first thing I did was ask God to take her in his kingdom and thanking him for giving me such a wonderful wife and companion for thirty years. I never once thought about blaming God because she died we both knew she didn't have long which did not help one bit. If not for God pulling me through I have no idea what would have become of me. but my faith that God would lead and direct me through my life without her has helped me go on. And yes even after three years without her I get very depressed at times but then like Vanessa said I think how she would feel about what has happened since she passed as she was a very emotional woman. I will try in the future to not talk about her so much but it is hard not to.
Jimmy

Bev, there are all kinds of places where people could give in to despair. So many instances where it was all so bleak but faith sustained them. That just amazes me so much because I have given in to despair. I have ranted and raved and cursed rather than drop to my knees and prayed and I want the rest of my life to be different than that. I want to turn to prayer when things arent going well and be thankful when things go well. I have a lot to learn from Job.

Jimmy, I never grow tired of hearing about Billie. I always smile knowing that you both shared a great and wonderful love than is so far beyond this world we live in. Your life with Billie is an inspiration to all of us so please do not stop talking about her!

Jimmy, you talk about Billie all you want. Whatever you are comfortable with.

Job is one of my favorite books in the bible. After losing a husband and 3 children to death, I identified with Job. But Job is a good teacher, he helped teach me NOT to take the easy way out, of the victim and also to have faith. To me Job is a message of Hope.

I have felt deep despair and longed for it to end. Amazingly, God worked through some other people to bring me back to a life of positiveness. I have been given great gifts.

I can't replace my lost children, but I now have grandchildren that I can love and 3 living daughters that fill me with joy. Who knew despair would lead me to joy?

The accounts of Job paints a big picture of the dark conditions we are put in that could bring a great deal of dispair...and over & over people ask the question...why do bad things happen to good people...people that are being obedient.

It was dark now, and Jesus had not yet come to them. John 6:17

And for me, just when you think it couldn't get any darker.....you would think that God would "fix" it...and he doesn't!

I think the disciples had the same expectation. They only did what they were told. Jesus told them to get in the boat...and they did. They didn't question the order; they simply obeyed it. It would have made perfect sense for them to question it or not do it at all...it was getting dark and I don't think they "wanted " to be in a boat in the dark. So what was the result of them being obedient? The answer is in the scripture above...it was dark...and Jesus had NOT yet come to them. So now...the wind picks up and the waves on the lake were getting bigger. They did what Jesus asked them to do and now look at the mess they are in...a great big storm. It is one thing to suffer for doing wrong...but to suffer for being obediet???What's up with that? And that is what we think...if I do good...I wont suffer and certainly wont be put in a situation of despair...But it happens.
So you know the disciples had to ask the same question..the storm is bad enough...but he led us out here to fend for ourselves...just "left" us out here in the middle of the storm.
If you dig into the scripture you find that they were out in that boat rowing for about 9 hours..that is a long night. So why did it take so long for Jesus to come to them...they were calling out to him..and they knew he was there just before they got in the boat.
In Mark (Mark 6:48)it says that during the storm Jesus saw his followers "struggling"...but he waited. He waited for the right time and THEN he came. So, I have always wondered what made it the "right" time? Why was the 9th hour better than the 4th or 5th hour. Why does God wait till our money is gone, or the illness gets worse...or the depression is deeper..WHY..
We don't know...we only know that HIS timing is right (there's that faith thing again)

Fernie you are an inspiration to me, today especially.

JV, please don't cut your friends here out of that part of your life. I for one love reading your posts and knowing just a little about Billie helps me to know you better.

mrsmessy, you said it best "It's a wonderful book of loss, love and redemption."

I think that having to go through the bad stuff helps us to treasure the good. Getting a taste of despair enables us to know how wonderful hope and faith feel.

Prophesy says that it is going to get a whole lot worse before it ever gets better. Can you imagine how awful it would be if our lives were only filled with good before the bottom fell out. We would indeed be lost.

ANother thing that strikes me about the reading I have done in Job is that his friends did not have the faith he did. His wife did not even have the faith that he did. It is similar to the lives we lead when many around us may not posses the same values that we do. There is so much temptation around us that can take us to a road that is not one we should be on. When we head down that road we open ourselves up to more despair. It is a cycle that can take us under if we allow it. It is why we must remember to do what we are doing right now and keep God in our hearts and in the forefront of our lives. With Him in our heart, the despair will not overwhelm us.

Tomorrow is the anniversary of 9/11 a time in US history that took many, many people to the edge of despair. Yet there are many examples out there of people who, knowing they would die, still fought back and that is what we too must do. We must fight to preserve our faith and it will not come to us if we sit idle and wait for it. We must seek the Lord and always work to please Him.

Sheri I have no intentions of cutting my friends here out of anything. You have no idea how much more bareble you all make my life. You make me laugh at your silly little antics and what you say. I ahdn't laughed in over three years before joining this forum. I guess I get my biggest laugh at Cindy making fun of herself. You are all very strong and wonderful women if I could I would hug you all.Better go before I say something I should and get in trouble.
Jimmy

They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. Psalm 126:5

And....do you know what Jesus is doing while we are in out times of trial & dispair?

He is carrying us that is why we only see one set of footprints.

Despair is what I think of as the devil's handiwork.

Heaven= is being with GOD.

Hell= being away from GOD----> DESPAIR!!

I hate the thought of the devil winning souls.

Exactly JV...he is praying for us!
Jesus wasn't in the boat with the disiples because he had gone to the hills to PRAY!!! He heard their cries and remained in prayer.

Because Jesus lives forever, he will never stop serving as a priest. So he is able always to save those who come to God through him because he always lives, asking God to help them Hebrews 7:24~25

So...where does that leave us? While Jesus is praying and we are still in the storm, what do we do? What the diciples did...KEEP ROWING! In that passage of Mark it said that the diciples "struggled" hard to row the boat. The word struggle is translated elsewhere as "tormented". That means it wasn't easy, it wasn't fun, and that is how most of life is.
There are moments of fun, days of celebration. We have a lot of days of "feasts...but we also have a lot of days of "bologna" sandwiches! And to have the feasts...we HAVE to endure the sandwiches!

So well said everyone. I am so full of happiness and joy and even better PEACE! I have never spent this much time in study of the Bible and I will never again not spend time doing this. SO thank you all for helping me to shove the seeds of despair out of my life! What a glorious day it is!

Triss...I have to tell you that it is real EASY to explain or help someone see God's word & purpose. It is a much more difficult thing to apply it to OUR life. I am a very perfect example of that! I know and study God's word and try to keep it fresh in my heart...but I am the VERY one that will get discouraged, panicked, desperate..right off the bat! It is something I have to CONTINUALLY strive for because I feel like I get knocked around every single day...and so many things I think should work out totally different just don't happen. Why I have to endure some of the things I do...I certainly didn't ASK for them. This isn't the life I signed up for! But...somewhere God has a purpose for this crazy plan that I am going through...I just get VERY discouraged through the journey. That is WHY God provides us with our friends and family that are constantly interceding in prayer on our behalf..........

Jimmy - I know I drive my friends and neighbors nuts talking about my son. The world has moved on and doesn't realize that the pain and loss are still fresh. Even after time passes that wound can be ripped open again when we least expect it. I'm sure that Fernie would probably agree that even though grief doesn't consume us it sure does occupy a big space. What I especially enjoy reading about your Billie is that after 30 years you still would prefer her companionship. We celebrated our 30th anniversary this summer and I hope that if I went my husband would miss me as much as you miss your wife.

Job and David became my companions in my time of greatest need, as well as 1 Peter. After about a year I woke up one morning with the realization that God did not create me to be joyless. That alone was enough to put "despair" in it's place. I also think we need to not confuse despair with sadness or clinical depression. Despair becomes a condition of the soul whereas sadness is situational and depression is treatable.

"We do not grieve like those who have no hope" First Thessalonians 4:13. No hope - that would be despair.

Triss - thank you for starting this.

Bev, I do agree....with everything you said.

I know it is harder to tell someone what to do that to do it for yourself, we all find ourselves in that situation. I am sure that I will have many more moments of termoil but for these last few days at least, I have been in peace and that is a very good thing!

Bev, I think that grief can certainly lead to despair but that it does not have to. I let grief take me to despair and beyond when my brother and his wife died. If I hadn't had my children to care for, I am very sure I would have stayed in that dark place, but I had to live for them. I am able to go through long periods of time without grieving but you are right when you said that it can hit hard. I am sure it is more difficult for my mom than for me.

I think I can speak on behalf of Nancy & Fernie as well as myself when I say that there is NO death...that compares to loosing your child. I thought the hardest thing I would ever have to face was when my mother passed away...little did I know it is so very different when you have a child...no matter what age...that dies. It is an unatural thing to bury one of your children...something none of us ever expect to have to do. And you have a choice before you..stop living altogether..or pick up the pieces and attempt to carry on. I must say that is would be MUCH easier to stop living...and have seen many people choose that route...the later is a much more difficult task. And...people will tell you it gets easier with time..I have not found that to be true. You learn to COPE differently with time...but never gets easier.

Well I think you expect to outlive your parents. And when they die, it hits hard, but you do not expect to outlive your children so when they die, it completely turns your world upside down.

Exactly! Never easier, but we learn to cope. I also have discovered that living with the aftermath of a death by suicide is different too. This is really unnatural as someone chose to die and leave. That can really lead to feelings of guilt and despair....eventhough it isn't about the people left behind at all. It takes a bunch of time to learn to realize that.

But Job had other problems besides the loss of his children. He lost everything he owned, he lost his health, he lost the respect and love of his spouse, and he lost the respect of his friends and acquaintences. Job had nothing but his life left and he never lost his faith either. He knew he hadn't done wrong, he just didn't know why all this misfortune had been visited upon him. Job like the vicitim role a little bit, so God let him have it too....where was Job when the earth was created? Who created the seas, awoke the morning? And Job humbled himself and apologized then worshiped the Lord.

So I think despair is a little bit me trying to take responsibilty for things that are not mine to be responsible for. Despair comes from me thinking I am the center of my universe. Despair comes from me not letting God be in control.

Just some thoughts.....

That is a really good point Fernie, I never thought of despair along those lines before. Sure does give you something else to think about.

It is very hard to avoid despair. When we lost our granddaughter at 18 it almost killed all of us. They are supposed to bury us we are not supposed to bury our children and garndchildren. The way she was killed hurt us I think more then the fact she was killed. Also with my wife I find I am blaming myself for not being able to save her. After all I am supposed to take care and protect my wife which I did not. I know it was all Gods will I do not question God. I struggle to not blame myself for her death. I know she is out of pain and can see again. I console myself that she is cooking for and serving God,Jesus and the saints in Heaven. Hope this don't sound corny or anything I don't know how to put a lot of my thoughts in writting. I struggle a lot to just put thoughts into words .
Jimmy

It does not sound corny at all JV. Heaven is a wondorous place where we are to live with all goodness and beauty. And if cooking is what Billie wants to do, then I am sure that is what she is happily doing, without having to clean the kitchen!

It gives those of us great comfort to see in our minds eye our loved ones doing what makes them happy in heaven. It helps us to avoid falling into despair to know that they are in a better place than we are.

A much better PLACE!!! And would I want to bring Dayne back to this world to see what we are seeing, to live what we are living? Well...the "selfish" part of me would LOVE to have him sitting here next to me so I could touch his nappy hair..and have to smell his stinkin socks...but the loving part of me knows that he is where we are all working to be! Why would I want to deny him sitting at the feet of Jesus with a banquet table prepared before him and the choirs of angels in perfect harmony.

This is some beautiful writing - just beautiful. The closest death I've had to deal with is a cousin, (my father died last month but we weren't close), so I can't relate to those of you who have. I have the utmost respect and admiration for you guys in the way that you word your thoughts and feelings - without bitterness or hatred. It's so inspiring. Thank you.

Sheri, I lost my entire family, except my sister & her children & my son, to cancer in a 5 year period. It was crazy...my sister & I were becoming profession funeral planners! And all of the sudden, the huge family get togethers and holidays were gone. There was just no one left. I didn't handle it well at all for a long time...it seemed so harsh. Both sets of my grandparents were deeply religous people...never smoked, drank, nothing. One of my grandmothers always wore long dresses with long sleeves...sunlight never touched her body...when she passed away, I wanted to see her skin...when I looked at her arm..she had the most beautiful mother of pearl looking skin..it was almost irodesent or something. But I said all of that to say...I was floored at all of them having cancer. And I am not going to tell you that I understand it any better now than then...I have just come to understand that God has a very specific plan for all of us...and their plan was fulfilled. Like Jimmy said about his Billie...my grandparents would be overwhelmed at our world today...they would be devistated at things that are happening...their hearts would be broked....so maybe, just maybe, that is why God allowed them to not have to deal with this stuff. And in a way...that just confirms what a kind & gentle heavenly father we have.

We have not had much loss in our family and what we have had, I have not handled well at all. I hope that if I have to deal with death now, I can do it with more grace than I have before. I think now that I have the Lord in my life and heart daily instead of just a figure out there somewhere, it will be a bit easier.

Grief is ok. A natural process to help get over the loss. I think it is when we wallow in the process and make it all about ourselves that it becomes not about the loss of a loved one but about selfishness.

Does anyone read Oswald Chambers? In his book "My Utmost for His Highest" (a daily devotional)? His February 17 and 18th readings are about depression and despair. He calls it natural human conditions that God can lift us out if we arise and do the next thing. The next thing is to TRUST God absolutely. Today OC talks about holding onto that trust even when the Lord is shrouded from our view. God is taking us by a way we don't or can't understand and ultimately with faith and trust, that way will become clear. Do we have the spritual fortitude to wait for the way to become clear?

I don't believe it was God's will that any of my children died. I do believe they are now in a better place with God. I read in the bible somewhere that Satan has control of the earth. So I blame the bad on Satan. I chose some selfish grieving for a time. And that led me to despair. But God, when I invited him to take control of my life, helped me learn to cope and get on with whatever He has in store for me. I hope from now on, I can grieve healthily and keep God in my life.

Fernie, "MY UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST" is the all time leading top seller of devotionals. I was very fortunate that my dad had a zillion copies of it. I certainly would recomend it to anyone wanting a good devotional..
My thinking (or maybe I should say "belief") is a little different than Fernie's. I do believe it was God's will for my son to die. I have always believed that God has a perfect plan for our life even before we were ever a twinkle in moma's eye. And because God is all seeing and all knowing...he knows exactly from start to finish the journey we will take. Yes, he gives us the power of "choice"..and we don't always make the right ones...but he knows that before we even face that situation. Just as God allowed Satan to "take" Job's children...he "allowed" Satan to do that. He could have stopped it at any time...and he did restrict it to anything except Job's life. So, I have to believe that had it not been God's will for that to happen (for what ever reason) he would NOT have allowed it to happen. I also do not believe that Satan has control of the world. If he did we would not be allowed the freedom of worship that we have...there will be a time that Satan WILL be loosed on the earth...that is in the time of tribulation....the world will NOT be allowed the freedom of worship, or even be able to have a Bible...the time of tribulaton will be like nothing we have EVER seen with our eyes. I do believe that Satan is in our world...he is very real and demonic spirits are very much alive and working...but just as in the day of Job...he CANNOT do anything...that God, again for whatever reason,does not allow. He has boundries set before him...if he did not...we would parrish for sure. Please do not misunderstand me..these are just things that I believe in my heart...just the way I have been taught. I believe that we all have different ideas and views and we learn from each other. I am THANKFUL for the freedom we have to be able to do that.

Great points to think about from both of you. My questions that come from that are: If Satan does not have some sort of control or allowances on the Earth, why is there such evil. Why are all people, not just us allowed to worship freely. Here in America, we have great liberties that just are not allowed other places in the world.

And on a totally different note. I saw on teh news today that the Palestenians were allowed free reign in the Gaza strip and the first thing they did were to burn the temples. It was with great sorrow that I watched this and with you, Hinda in my thoughts and prayers during this very trying time for you and your people.

What a beautiful thought - I often think that as much as I would dearly love to put my arms around him again I would not take him from where he is. In my devotions on the morning he died I read One year after he died we hosted a "party" for his entire marching band, youth group and all the neighbors. As part of the celebration of his life I told the story of his salvation. Two teens were saved that night. I wish the whole world could have seen those same two stand up in church yesterday at the invitation of a visiting missionary to follow Christ wherever he leads - the same commitment Pete had made just months before he died. There were very few dry eyes around us. I wondered if it was worth my sons life to usher into the kingdom all the ones who were saved at his funeral and others since then - I know that Pete would say absolutely.

What a tender topic this has proved to be. I think we all have at least come to the brink of despair if not plummeted into it and the reoccuring theme is that the joy of salvation has pulled us out.

As to why there is so much evil in the world, one of my favorite epistles, 1 Peter 5:8, says "Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." There's a very good reason why he is called the prince of this world.

Oh my goodness Bev. I am so warmed by all that you wrote. What a wonderful tribute to your son that you can look back on his life and see so much good in it and know that he touched so many lives.

That is a life I would like to share with my son. So just know that Pete is continuing to touch others through you.

Bev...Than yo for sharng the devotion you were given..what a wonderful account of your son's purpose. I could write on and on the amazing things that surrounded us at the time of Dayne's death. I was doing some study to answer Triss' question about satan in the world. THE FIRST scripture that I came to was the exact scripture you quoted from 1 Peter 5:8.....I couldn't believe you included that! What a confirmation! I try very hard not to say anything that I cannot back up with scripture.
We as Christian have a tendecy to "blame it all on the devil" when in fact it may be some of our own carelessness or fleshly nature which led to the sin or the error. It can be said however, that when it is our fleshly nature or the world which draws us from the Lord..and not the devil directly...it is true that satan and his army of demons desire that we be drawn to the world's standards.
As far as the "other" people who do not have the "freedoms" that we have is a direct result of the laws/governing of their particular sociaty. They are decieved (just as people in the opld testement & new) in believing by worshipping "idols" or other gods..that is the religion that was choosen y their families...thus the need for the missionaries.

Vanessa I think you hit the nail on the head when you said deceived. I think that as Westerners we don't like to give credit for our behavior to anyone other than ourselves because we value individuality so much. Certainly I can get myself into all kinds of trouble with my mouth and attitude but sometimes we need to pay attention to the fact that Satan delights in our misdeeds and attempts to lead us astray. Jeremiah 17:9 says "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" We are fallen and that nature contributes mightily to our sin but we should not discount the role Satan plays as he masquerades as an angel of light.

Triss I have an addition to the Bible search engines that's great for key word and passages searches. You will probably have to clean it up for me because I remain clueless.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/

My problem is I remember reading something and cannot remember where!!! I know people can lead themselves into destruction. I have to take responsibility for my own actions. I just believe that satan is responsible for things like disease or depression that leads to suicide or just plain deception and temptation. He can't mess with our will. I don't know that that is scriptural....I need to go looking.

Bev...my attitude is my own worst enemy!!I REALLY get myself in a lot of trouble with it! I heard a little saying one time and I have it written in the front of my Bible..I have to look at it EVERY day...it says

Sometimes God calms the storm...
But sometimes God let's the storm rage..and calms his child!

That spoke volumes to me...I believe that God is not always as concerned with the storm we are going through as he is our ATTITUDE and reaction about the storm. Are we complaining...or trusting? Are we trying to "fix it" ourselves or putting it in his hands? I have a REALLY hard time because I get discouraged VERY easy...I shouldn't...and I really try to work on my reactions..but I have a LONG ways to go! I've been going around that mountain a long time...you would think I would LEARN!!!

Fernie...you are absolutely correct! The name "satan" means "enemy"; the devil; the enemy of God & man.

satan encouraged David to sin 1 Chronicles 21:1

tested Job Job 1:6-12

tempted Jesus Luke 4:1-13

is a fallen angel Luke 10:18 & 19

will be thrown into the lake of fire Revelations 20:10

His main purpose is to "confuse us, decieve us and cause us to fall as he did.

Something that has been on my mind all week. Have been having a very hard time putting it to words but I am going to try because I cannot shake it and feel very compelled to share and get some input on it from all of you.

My brother Jake was not a believer. In fact he said more than once that he did not believe God existed. I have absolutely no idea if he ever changed his views on this but I always prayed for him and still do pray for his soul.

He killed his wife and then killed himself and whenever I let myself dwell on that, I have an overwhelming fear and knowledge that he is not in heaven, how could he be after what he did. I always hope that somehow, someway before his death he found the Lord but I also doubt that he did. There is no way to know for sure as I was not there in the moments before he died.

When I allow myself to travel down this road of thought, I am overwhelmed by sadness, grief and can feel myself succumbing to despair. It hurts so badly to know I may never again be in his presence.

I know others have dealt with suicide, how do you manage it all?

Triss...you pretty much answered your own question! Ruf & I talked about this for a long time last night...pertaining to a different situation...but the same subject. You have to come to the knowledge of your personal belief...grounded in the scripture. First of all...there is absolutely NO way that we have of knowing the condition of ANYONES heart other than our own. I believe that we are going to be VERY surprised when we get to Heaven...because there are many "good" people that I believe are not going to make it to Heaven because of the condition of their heart. Many people believe that if you are "good" you have it made...I do not believe that is so. I think we also judge people that "we" think will never make it...that will, because only God knows what is in their heart. My father as a pastor always said that people who commit suicide were committing "murder" and would not go to heaven. I personally do NOT agree with that...again..because ONLY GOD knows the truth that is in the heart. My brother also committed suicide...as did one of my Aunts....until I KNOW otherwise, I will hold on to the "hope" that they both made it to Heaven. Murder, depression, suicide, divorce...the list could go on...but none of these are the unpardonable sin. The scriptures VERY clearly state that there is ONLY 1 sin that is unpardonable...
Don't allow yourself to be tormented by these thoughts..that is where faith & hope come in..that is where mercy and grace fall in to place.

For one thing I know the suicide of my son was caused by a mental illness just as devastating as cancer or heart disease. I call it emotional cancer. So I believe that is what my son died from. He wasn't trying to kill his self, he was trying to get rid of the pain. I don't think God punishes people for being mentally ill.

Suicide is the all time guilt, shame and anger trigger for those left behind. And it usually takes some talks with a loving pastor to get a handle on it all. You might want to think about doing that.

We don't know what happens after death. Though we have all heard of the "white light" near death experiences. Perhaps people are given a chance then to recant their wrongs and sins, I don't know. All we can do is pray for those who are gone and try to keep our own houses in order I think. I do believe when our time comes and we die, we will then know what is not known now. And the understanding will not be a painful thing.

Thanks both of you. Talking of death and loss usually brings my thoughts of Jake to the forefront and he has been on my mind quite a bit this week.

I no longer have the anger and guilt that I could have done something. I know now there was nothing I could do as I was not there the moment it all happened. I still feel the sorrow and loss of one who was left behind as we all feel when anyone we love leaves us.

Most of the time, I do believe that they are together and in a better place. Most of the time I do believe that I will see him again. I just have moments of fear and uncertainty as I am sure we all have had at sometime in our lives. Those are times when I need to pray and turn my concerns over to God. And that is something I am still learning to do.

Fernie..I think you hit it right on target..we have NO way of understanding all of this now...we cannot comprehend God's thoughts or ways! The scripture says that we are responsable for our actions when we come to a point of accountability, although most people interpet that to children, my personal belief is that there are MANY adults that are not accountable due to depression, medications...things of that nature. We serve a very LOVING GOD, and to think that he would not consider all of those situations would be limiting him...and he has NO boundries.

While it's true that we can't know God's thoughts I think it is also true that we can never really know the mind or heart of anyone else. We don't know what passes through the mind of another at the moment of death. Are they hit with the magnitude of what they have done in those last seconds and come to repentence? There's no way we can know. We have to trust that the God who created them and knew them from before the foundation of the world and numbered their days was there at the last, waiting for them to turn to Him. I don't want to sound simplistic but suicide is mental illness and we don't blame or we shouldn't blame victims of mental illness for their disease. We get angry and hurt over the waste of potential but we aren't in charge. There are many days when I just sit and thank God that I am not in charge.

I know there are MANY days OTHER people thank God that I'm not in charge!

you are too funny!!!

That is great Vanessa. Gave me a good laugh this morning.

I was told not to drive the bus. God is the driver, I am just the passenger, whenever I try to drive, things go whacky and it is a bus wreck! So I try to remember not to drive the bus.

Great metaphor Fernie.

He is in control and if we can always rememebr that, I am sure our lives would run a lot smoother.

i know that i havent written much )(or rather anythingthis wek - its been hectic here) but i just wanted to knoe when you change the topics . i know its the beginning of the week, but whicj day is that. i know that sounds starnge but for me sunday is a regular work day, so i wanted to know which day you start a new topic. please dont stop this thread - i am relaly enjoying it even if i dont participate in it all the time.

Hinda...I think the plan is not to change the topic until we reach 100 posts..(is that correct Triss?)

I wanted to share something I came across in my studies this morning! In light of what I have been going through I thought is was VERY timely. And also on track with our discussions here. I received a whole new encouragement from it...and hope you do as well!

Malachi 3:3 says: "He will sit as a refiner and
> > purifier of
> > silver."
> >
> > This verse puzzled some women in a Bible study
> and
> > they wondered
> > what this
> > statement meant about the character and nature of
>
> > God.
> >
> > One of the women offered to find out the process
>
> > of refining
> > silver and get
> > back to the group at their next Bible Study.
> >
> > That week, the woman called a silversmith and
> made
> > an appointment
> > to watch
> > him at work. She didn't mention anything about
> > the reason for her
> > interest
> > beyond her curiosity about the process of
> refining
> > silver. As she
> > watched
> > the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over
> > the fire and let
> > it heat up.
> > He explained that in refining silver, one
> needed
> > to hold the
> > silver in the
> > middle of the fire where the flames were
> hottest
> > as to burn away
> > all the
> > impurities.
> >
> > The woman thought about God holding us in such
> a
> > hot spot; then
> > she thought
> > again about the verse that says: "He sits as a
> > refiner and
> > purifier of
> > silver."
> >
> > She asked the silversmith if it was true that he
>
> > had to sit there
> > in front
> > of the fire the whole time the silver was being
> > refined. The man
> > answered
> > that yes, he not only had to sit there holding
> the
> > silver, but he
> > had to keep
> > his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in
> > the fire. If the
> > silver was
> > left a moment too long in the flames, it would be
>
> > destroyed.
> >
> > The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked
>
> > the
> > silversmith, "How do
> > you know when the silver is fully refined?"
> >
> > He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's
> easy
> > -- when I see my
> > image in
> > it"
> >
> > If today you are feeling the heat of the fire,
> > remember that God
> > has his
> > eye on you and will keep watching you until He
> sees
> > His image in
> > you.


We have talked about the trials that bring us to despair...and all of the reasons we must go through them...no matter what they are. I think God is allowing me to see that I should be "thankful" for the refining he has been attempting to do to me. It is certainly difficult to be thankful when you cannot see the big picture and do not understand the process!

Yes hinda, 100 posts or close to that. Then we will change topic but it will alwasy be listed with the title Bible Study...

WOW Vanessa, that is totally awesome! Gave me the chills just reading it.

So if we think about it like that, our trials are not meant to break us, but make us stronger. People say that all the time, but it makes a whole lot more sense in this light.

It brought tears to my eyes thinking of God watching for a reflection of His image in me. Good analogy Vanessa.

Very much makes you want to do better does't it!

That is really beautiful Vanessa. We are to made in God's own image and are to strive to be Christlike but I never thought of God looking at us and seeing his image. That's a lot to think about.

It very much makes me ashamed that I HAVEN'T been doing better....

Remember Vanessa, God is MOULDING is in His image. We are far from perfect and will always have faults.

I wonder how much the life style choices we make lead to despair. I know that when I am chronically busy and overtired my attitude is effected. Small problems seem big and big problems seem monumental (mental being the operative word). I wonder if we took care to do what God commanded, honor God, honor the Sabbath, honor our parents, don't do anything illegal (murder, theft, etc..) or stupid (covet and lust) and then rested like we are supposed to, if life would seem so out of control. If our quest for "things" could be satisfied with what we actually need life might seem more hopeful.

We certainly reap what we sow.

"and then rested like we are supposed to" bev - funy you should say that. this past week my husband has been working very hard - and very long hours. since we are observant Jews we keep out Sabath fully and are not allowed to do any work - not even supposed to talk aboutit - in order to make a separation between everyday things and holy things. and i must say that it was great for him. becasue you know each week that no matter what you are doing you just stop and enjoy your sabbath. we go to synagogue togethre, eat fri.nite and sabbath meals together. take wlks and spend beiutiful family time together while enjoying the spiritual side of sabbath too. no tv, no shopping - no use of electrical items directly - (ex. not alowed to turn a light on , but if the light is on a timer you can use its light) if we weren't "forced" to rest on sabbath, i could see how easy it is to lose yourself in the everday and despairing. life is not supposed to be so hectic - we must keep things in perspective and keep despair at bay.

I had no idea you had a Bible study here. How wonderful ! You all seem very lovely, caring people. Normally I just post in the recipes section, and I am fairly new here, too.
I think reading your post, hinda, has put some light onto why I feel so stressed. I have not taken time to rest as I should. You are so right, God would not have put that in His word for nothing.
May I ask you a question? How do you prepare your meals on the Sabbath then ? I always have wondered about that. Do you make things the day before and eat them cold? Things like breads and salads? I hope you do not mind me asking.

Welcome Lucy...jump right in...we are all realy enjoying this thread!
Bev...I think you & Hinda hit it exactly! I do not think we would get ourselves in quite the situations of "despait" that we do if we would listen & follow more attentively. I also believe that you are correct in taking time to rest! I am not geared to "rest"...I start feeling guilty, like I am wasting time not getting things done! When i stopped to think about it after reading your posts...it amazed me how much I am sucked in to the "world" by my own thoughts & actions! How could I be wasting time..if it is something that God considered so important that he threw it in the commandments!!!! Sheds a whole new light on just taking some time to revive ourselves...physically & spiritually every week!

Lucy Lou - welcome and if I can answer the question you asked Hinda, the Jewish sabbath begins and ends at sundown. When God created the world He said "evening and morning" were the order of the six days of creation (rest on day 7) so that remains the order of Jewish observation. This is a bit of a challenge because sunset arrives at different times depending on where you are and you have to watch for it in order to have the Sabbath meal prepared before the sun sets.

I don't think it is a huge step to compare it to watching for the return of the Messiah. We are told to be ready and watching for that day.

Hinda - do you ever employ a Sabbath goy to perform tasks that are not allowed?

Vanessa - I think we are all "geared" to rest as part of being in the image of God but somewhere along the line the world (or our mothers) made us feel that it was not productive.

Thank you for the welcome.
I knew that Sabbath started from sundown to sundown, but am curious as to what you eat. Is is prepared salads, breads, things of that nature that you just eat cold? What about washing the dishes afterwards? These are just practical things I have wondered about.

It is so hard for me, since my husband works shift work and works on our day of worship, which for us is Sunday. He works 12 hour shifts both Saturday and Sunday. It takes so much work for me to get him to be prepared for his job. I have just been having the hardest time in my life getting things done, no matter what day of the week it is. I really need a day of rest once a week, and I believe in the importance of it. It just doesn't seem possible with my husbands schedule. He must take all of his food with him, he is the only person on shift and can't order food in even, as no one is allowed without permission on the site.
I need to pray and ask God to help me with this. I believe in the power of prayer and I also believe God is concerned with the things that concern us.

I remember visiting my aunt and uncle who lived in a small southern town, were Church of God, and who rested on Sunday after church. My aunt did fix her dinner the day before but warmed everything up to eat. I can't remember if she washed dishes or not. I don't think they had a TV (maybe did) but they just sort of laid or sat around on Sunday until it was time to go back to church at night. I would like to do this too but I can't figure out how to get everything done on Saturday, errands, cleaning, yard, laundry. How did they do it?

Great line of discussion, especially after the day I have had today.

I agree that we MOVE way too much and rarely as Americans take a moment much less a day to rest. We are so busy working our 40+ hour weeks and then topping that with kids and extra stuff that the weekend is our time to put our own house in order. Yes, a lot of us go to church and hang out at home but we are all usually doing still. A day of rest is much needed.

It also brings to mind something else we do not do. After God created, he looked back on what he did and saw that it was good. How often do we look back on our days and see the good we did. We are always so geared up and planning on what has to be done next, worry about what we did not get done, we never look back and say that it was good.

It is no wonder we are so easily susceptible to despair.

Triss, good thought about looking at what we have accomplished and think how good it is !
I have been canning and canning and canning. I was so pleased today, and thanked God for the cupboard full of food to feed my family with. It is just my husband and I, but I give to my daughter for her family, too. I will share a little with my brother and sister in law, too. They are missionaries and currently in Estonia. They will be home before the holidays.
I hope that God looks down upon me and says, it is good ! What more could we ask for than for God to be pleased with us ?
The discussion here has really been making me think all day about how I can simplify or at least prepare more ahead than I already do for having a day of much needed rest.

lucy - since sabbath starts really on friday night we prepare food on fri (even thurs if sabbath starts early in the winters). we heat the food up on a "platta" (a large flat electric food heater - its not so hot but it keeps fod warm) but because we can only use electricity that we did not turn on on sabbath , we must eithr have apresenttimer aor have it on the whole sabbath. we generally eat soup then fish/chicken/meat and sidedishes of cooked and fresh veggies, andf different types of souffles. sort of like thnskgsgiving dinner (i think), during the day it is traditional to use a crckpot and cook a stew from fri before sundown. we do use electricity just not directly (there are A LOT) of intricate rules and regulations that you can ask more of but thats the basics. washing dishes - you cannot use hot water becase then you would caseumore hot water to be heated up and you must use a special sponge (another rule that is not allowed becaseu it is considered "work" - work being defined as an action that was done in the disly rituals of the Holy Temple)
bev - we do not have a shabbat goy around here, we live amongst arab villages and we arent about to invite them anywhere near our home - they arent o frienly (sorry if i offended anyone but those are the facts of life around here) if we do need someone we find a child under the age of three hwo does not understnd the condept of things that arent allowed on shabbat - our youngest is 2 1/2 but he alrezdy knows not to touch certain things on shabbat so last week when he turned the fan of he didnt want ot rturn it back on so we had a pretty hot afternoon.... oh well. i cant complain he's learned well

i forgot to say that the sponge is somethign that you cant squeeze - because wring ing something out is not allowed

Hinda, thank you for the good information on how you do things for Sabbath. I find it so interesting. I always learn so much from others.
I have had friends from other countries and I am always fascinted by them all.
I truly appreciate you answering my questions. There are probably many more questions I could ask. However, I will try to stick with the conversation here.
I am happy to have found each of you here !
Today I got a call from a friend whom I had not spoken with in many months. Just our lives have been busy doing other things. She and her husband desire children so badly. She told me they lost a baby and have been unable to conceive again. My heart just broke for them. They would be great parents.
I know you were talking about dispair. All I could do was try to comfort her and then give her hope that God hears our cries. I remember how Hannah was barren, and even Elizabeth, for so many years. Yet, in His time, God gave them children. I told my friend to keep on hoping, to not despair. That God was in control and sometimes we may not understand His plan, for we cannot see the future, as God can. I tried to leave her with a feeling of trust in God's plan.
Still, it is hard to know my friend is mourning.So, I am awake in the middle of the night, praying and asking God to comfort my friends heart.
Again, thanks everyone for listening and answering my questions.
Blessings upon you.

Hinda - sorry, the Sabbath gentiles I have been familiar with have been Christian believers who were glad to be of assistance to their Jewish neighbors, I forgot about the strain between neighbors where you are.
Lucy Lou - we have some very devout people in my church and they prepare Sunday dinner the day before (usually sandwiches) and eat off paper plates. I have a young friend who will not eat out on Sunday because it causes someone else to work. I, on the other hand, am happy to eat out on Sunday or any other day of the week.
You are wise to pray for your friend, especially in the night, those are the worst hours. I had friends whose prayer presence I felt holding me up and sustaining me in the night hours when grief is strongest. Friends who have not been able to give birth tell me that most often it's the thoughtless things that others say that wound the most - joking about how easy it was for them or how lucky they are to not have to change diapers, etc... or the well-meaning things that are said like keep trying when every month they are reminded of their inadequacy. It is truly a mystery to me why wonderful people are not able to conceive and others who abuse and abandon their children are able to.
Triss I almost never think to look back and reflect on the good things I have done.
When my daughter and I were seeing a Christian therapist after Pete died (she was there too) he suggested writing down every compliment that someone paid me so that I would have a written record that life was not as bleak as it appeared. I was stunned when I finally followed his advice for a week at the number of comments I would have forgotten if I hadn't carried a little notebook that week. It still brings a smile to my face when I look at it.

Hinda, I will be the first to acknowledge that I know very little about the Jewish faith and its observances but I am fascinated to read all that you have chosen to share with us. I think with knowledge comes understanding and as long as we can understand one another, we can work to live together in peace.

We as a family are going through a very stressful situation right now with having to move without a lot of notice and I am so glad that we have been talking about this subject and all of its offshoots. If I had not been in the mindset that God is in control and I need to remember no to fall into despair cuz His will will be done, I would have felt so lost. Instead I feel as though what is going on is happening for a reason and once we get to the other side, we will be better off for traveling on the journey.

Hinda, I too am fascinated with your information. You take your faith seriously which a lot of Americans do not do. You have my respect for that.

I wonder if I had been unable to have children if I would have been able to come to terms with that. It's hard to realize what someone is feeling when you haven't experienced it.

Triss, I don't even know what to say to you. I hope this move will be easy and go smoothly.

We only have one daughter, but lost two to miscarriage. I can relate to the grief my friend is dealing with. It is a death, and I grieved just the same. It was so hard. My heart feels so badly for my friend. I know God has His reasons. I am praying for comfort for my friend. If anyone wants to pray for her, her name is Robyn.

Triss, I hope things go well for you, too. May you be happy and blessed in your new home. When we moved here, I was so alone. It was good in some ways, though, because I was forced to cry out to God and to know Him in a much deeper way since I had no one else other than my husband here.
You can come here and I am sure the ladies will help encourage you !

I don't know much about the Jewish faith either.There are the feasts and festivals in the Bible, but I don't really know how or why they are celebrated. I find it fascinating, too. Somehow I have felt "ripped off" by not being taught about them. I have been feeling this way for some time now.

triss - i hope the move goes smoothly and that you will be settled in easily.
lucy - i am sorry to hear about your friend, like you, i know the grieving over miscarriages all too well - i have had four. two were before we had any children and they were harder to deal with because you came home to an empty house. despair was at our doorstep and we didnt let him in. despair can come to easily and its faith and trust that is hard to achieve. and even once achieved it must always be worked on. in the end, my husband and i took the equivalent of a cleansing breath (in the form of a trip to visit my parents in canada - believe it or not) and came to the "conclusion" (even we all "know"this) that G-d is in control and He has a masterplan that we cannot fathom. that we must try our hardest but to have faith and trust in His Ways. it is actually quite relaxing when you look at it this way. and now i am going through the same type of ordeal - we want to have more children (we have two angels now) and after two miscarriages i am now having difficulty getting pregnant. but i do not feel despair on my doorstep - i now tht we are bign taken care of and we are only dealt what we are able to deal with with. if we have more kids we will be ecstatic and if we don't we will be saddened but be happy withour angels and raise them properly in the Way of G-d in His Land.

on another note if people have questions about judaism or our holidays you can pm me - i dont want to bore those that aerent interested

I think everyone is interested Hinda.

I also think that as Christian believers we have a responsibility to understand our heritage. Christ was a Jew who came to His own. Everyone of significance in the Bible was a Jew - all the prophets, the disciples and all the early leaders of the church. We can't really understand some of the epistles if we don't understand the culture to which they were written which I think is why Romans has so much appeal. It was written to gentiles.

The first college I attended was a Christian school that offered a course called "Modern Jewish Culture". It was an incredible blessing to be able to put together the biblical feasts with prophecy and to see the message in it all.

Christian believers and devout Jews have far more in common that just a shared belief in the creator of the universe.

Moving here to Nebraska has also brought me closer to God and onto a path that I fully believe is of His choosing and not mine.

hinda, I pray that you will be able to have more children. To me it is a rare strength that people have who are trying so hard to have children and having such a difficult time of it.

We are getting close to our limit on this subject and I wanted to know if there was another subject anyone would like to persue?

attributes of God? Fruit of the Spirit? Favorite verse? I'm easy to please.

Oh.....favorite verse and why????? Or any topic really, Bev has some good ideas.

I agree with mrsmessy, I think we are all interested. I also feel the same way, that Jesus is a Jew and it is our heritage.
As for a topic, whatever you decide is fine. If I think of something specific, I will post it.
Blessings to all.
Oh, hinda, when you write G-d, is that because His name is holy? I asked someone else this before but they did not answer my question. We have always written it out and I had not seen that until this other lady wrote it as you do.
I appreciate you being so kind to answer our questions. I hope you do not mind.

Here I am jumping in and answering someone elses question again but yes - God's name is holy and not to be written out completely.

I really like the favorite verse and why. We can spend a bit of time talking about them and that has to be good for all of us! I will get it going.

bev - feel free to jump in and answer anytime you like. i just wanted to add that by writing G-d we are able to fulfill the negative statute(ie.something that we are not allowed to do) of not taking His name in vain, as is wriiten in the ten commandments "Do not take the name of Ado..., your G-d in vain. For Ado...will not acquit the one who takes his name in vain" Exodus 20:7 (one of the ten commandments)
in hebrew we say "Hashem" which literally means "the name". or we slightly change the pronunciation of G-d's names (He has different names for his different traits like when His merciful traits are dominant or when His harsh judgements are more) i dont know if this can be seen in the english transaltion of the bible or not, but it is obvious in hebrew.

I totally understand the part about not taking the Lord's name in vain. So does that mean that writing his name out automatically is "in vain" or is that a protection just to be sure that you do not use His name in vain? If you are writing and say that God is gracious and good. Would that be ok?

May I post this for now? It is sort of off topic, but I need prayer. I have been thinking about your posts today about despair. I am not despairing, I have faith in G-d to help me.
I have been having some problems. I went to my doctor yesterday, got tested, I am diabetic. Really high sugar levels, twice what it should be. I am feeling sick to my stomach with the new pills he prescribed today. I will have to take some classes, be on a strict diet the rest of my life, take the pills, and do blood checks with a monitor every day. I know they will say exercise, too, which the only thing I can do is walk due to my back. I will buy a treadmill.
I have no choice in doing this, it is serious. My doctor was shocked because a little over a year ago, it was just slightly high, but still considered normal. He said I was the only person he ever has seen develop diabetes that fast. It usually takes years and is gradual. At least I knew the symptoms and told him yesterday. My grandpa died early in life due to diabetes and I have 2 aunts with it, too. At least we found out in time, so I can get help.
Please pray for me, that I will be able to follow his orders and that the pills will not keep making me ill. I know God can help me thru this. I know the Bible says "I can do all things thru Christ, who strengthens me." I need His strength, I am very tired (and hungry). I will try to post tomorrow.
Thank you for your prayers.
Lucy Lou

Lucy, we will certainly hold you in our prayers. Diabetes is a difficult thing to get under control at times...but you can get it under control and by learing some new eating habits can keep it that way. If you are a "new" diabetic..then you are in what they call the "honeymoon" period where it may be a little more difficult but will line out.

We wonder this so much...even with our Peanut! We have friends that are such wonderful Christains and have not been able to have children...and then someone so uncaring (as in Taylor's mother) can have a baby for someone else to raise. It is so disheartening...but as Hinda made reference to...God has a master plan that we cannot fathom! Ain't it the truth!!!! I certainly have a difficult time understanding the journeys he has us go through...the key here is to let him LEAD you through the journey and have complete faith & trust in him.... that will keep us from the point of dispare.

Lucy,

You are in our prayers. I can only imagine how difficult of a change this will be for you. Changing my diet to avoid gestational diabetes was difficult. I pray that you can find the foods that will appeal to you and fill you while at the same time keeping your numbers on target. You can do this and when you find yourself struggling, pray and find peace in Him.

It's a matter of life and death. You just have to do it. Easy for me to say huh? Can't even get off the Pepsi.

As a widower of a diabetic please for your self and your family keep your numbers right and eat what your supposed to. You cannot take your medicine and eat what you want. You must eat what keeps your blood sugar regulated. YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT!!
Jimmy

Thank you everyone. I do appreciate your prayers and concerns.
The past couple days were rough, the meds. made me sick to my stomach some. That and I get so tired at times. I don't have a monitor yet, still waiting to hear about my classes. I am eating exactly what is on the list, when, and how much. Today has been easier so far. Feeling better. Not as thirsty, either.
I know it is serious. I appreciate your words, Jimmy. I do understand that and will do my best. That is one of the main reasons I want to live,not for myself, but so my husband will not be alone, and I don't want my daughter and grandson to go thru life missing me like I miss my parents ! I want to spare them the heartache, if possible. I know that God will help me. I also believe He knows when I will die, but I still am not going to be foolish.
I will start participating in the other Bible study threads when I am able. This is just taking a little time to get adjusted.
God's blessings and best for each of you !

Lucy...it WILL get easier. And, when you get your moniter in it will help you a lot. Modern technology has helped tremindously in living with diabetes. It use to be very difficult for a diabetic to maintain proper insulin levels...now you can know for sure what they are quite painlessly. They also use to put a newly diagnosed diabetic in the hospital for weeks until they got them leveled out...so, as difficult as it is, I am thankful that you have these things to help. We will all continue to remember you in our prayers!

Lucy my wife would go on binges where she would eat a ton of sweets and starches then try to regulate with Insulin she took 50 +units of U 3 times a day then the R on a sliding scale which is quick acting. I have a friend I work with just had a heart attack brought on partly because he ate sweets and tried to regulate his sugar with pills have another friend a lady we have known for awhile. She takes Lantis I don't know the amount but she will eat cake and Ice cream and cookies then double up on the Lantis (sp). Another friend called me a week or so back and ask have you talked yo Annmrie? I said no she has her phone off and never returns call. He said he was having lunch with her while she took her sugar he said he liked to have fell out when he saw her level was almost 500 and she was eating a sweet roll. He said when he made a comment about it she said I know but by 2:00 in the morning I will bottom out so I have to. Hate to say it but I have seen this a lot I am from a family of diabetics on both sides. What I think annmarie is doing is when she eats all the stuff she is not supposed to eat then she takes her Insulin. By the time the Insulin has time to work the sugar from all the bad stuff has worked it's way through her then the Insulin makes her go low. This is some bad stuff don't mean to scare you but this is what I know happens. If your sleepy could be your body is adjusting to your meds. when you get your machine you will be able to stay straight on everything. Just try not to go on binges like my wife did and Annmarie does.
Praying you will get yours regulated. Most Docotors otr clinics here give you the monitor and show you how to use it at their office when thye put you on your meds.
Jimmy

Lucy - your tiredness also could still be from the elevated blood sugar. Extremes in either direction will cause sleepiness and it takes time to regulate it.

Thank you,4Ruddy, Jimmy, and mrsmessy. Today was easier. I am just hungry mostly at night, even though I have my snack. This is the hardest time of the day.
I promise, I will not binge like that. I am going to have a tiny 2 inch square piece of bday cake on Thursday. It is my grandbabies first birthday and the next day is my bday. My daughter is having a bday party. I am being truthful about it.
Other than that, I will be good. It is not the sweet stuff that is bothering me. I want more meat than I can have. Three ounces twice a day is not much. Do you know what three ounces looks like ?
The prayers of everyone is so helpful and I truly appreciate each one !

I would have a hard time with that also Lucy! I can live without sweets anytime...but don't be messin with my meat & tators! And, I love every veggies there is! I think you are doing really good so far and as long as you have the right attitude...that is half the battle! Hang in there...we are rootin for ya!

Lucy I would just bet that Vanessa could help you out with some cake and cookie recipes for diabetic's also pretty sure sheri Bestofour could too. They are both nurses. and Merme I am sure would have some recipes for diabetics. God bless and keep you and guide you on this journey.
Jimmy

I sure thank you for your encouragement ! I can feel the prayers, I know they are helping.
Tonight was easier than the previous ones !
I know I have lost a few pounds. I see my doctor next week. Today we went and bought a treadmill, too. Don't know where we can put it since we are out of space, but we will make it work. It is for our good, so we will use it. Here it rains for months and I don't want to walk in the rain. It is so windy, too, with the rain. Besides, it isn't safe to walk alone here.
When I was praying, this verse popped into my head. I had to look it up to see where it was found:
Exodus 23:25
And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee. (KJV)
AMEN!