A Gardeners Forum Forums Members History Forum Life 2005 Composting

Question for New England Gardners. Where can I get info about composting in Connecticut. I'm in a heated debate with my father about the necessity of adding generous amounts of manure to his gigantic leaf piles that rot so slowly. He doesn't agree about the need to add manure to get a good compost pile really cooking. Back in Texas I loved the manure runs to the horse farm on Saturdays! Oh wee, there's nothing like a Saturday morning unloading yards of sh#% !

KDS,
I want to answer your post,
but time is very short for me today..
I want to make sure you stick around a bit,
and I'll give some pointers....

In the meantime, here's a quick link to Bill's info here at The Garden Helper composting in your garden
Lot's of good reading....

Happy Composting,
And Happy Gardening!!!!

Weezie

My expirence says you don't really need to add manure to a compost pile to get it going.
All my family ever did was dump grass and leaf remains from mowing the lawn, in a pile in a warm corner of the yard, water it down on occasion, and let some time go by. Believe me, we got lots of good compost!

Well kds, it looks like you and Weezie will be best friends!!! She is the compost queen, I bet she even dreams about it! where ever she went, I'm SURE she's thinkin about what to write when she gets home

kds - is the pile mostly dry leaves? He should add some green stuff to it once in a while.

Hello kds
Welcome to The Garden Helpers Forum!!!!
You've asked a question about composting,
my most favorite conversation!!!
I have been a tad busy, and your question has
been burning a hole in my thoughts!!!!

I could talk about composting for hours,
so please forgive me if I get a little long winded on this subject and go a
little off tangent, because there is so many
but she did not like saving, turning, or anything with the work involved in composting, and if some people are like that, then the style your dad does, is perfect for them, throw the stuff on top, and on top and on top, after a certain time, stop throwing it on top and find another place for it, and then leave the one you were throwing stuff on top of alone, to give it time to decompose with out fresh stuff being added to the top constantly.... then you let the 2nd pile rest and by the time you're working on the 3rd pile, the under belly of the first pile should have some nice stuff under there, from the worms and such working it's wonder....
And to those speedy gonzalus's there's the compost tumblers, that do it in a very quick time.
All depends on how much work you want to put into it...

I hope this helps!!!
Please let us know the outcome of your piles are..
Well, the leave piles that is....................

Weezie

my main "house content" composting is:tea bags regular& herb,coffee& filter..oh yeah the wrapper the tea comes in gets the bucket also.potato peelings.leaves off my indoor plants that dry up or look shabby.potato peelings.whatever veggie happens to have left over usually corn& broccoli.I stockpile it into one of them huge ice cream buckets with a lid and it sits by my dish drain.
outside a huge yard with trees has lots of leaves.so some are in compost pile and mower has a mulcher so some are mulched in yard too.I weed& add them to pile year long.I collect my weeds in laundry basket.in summer i mow my neighbors yard once a month and add clippings to compost pile& also use her pitch fork for that matter.I toss old potting soil in pile and add some cow manure occassionally which is bagged and sits on walmart parkinglot in sun in TX so doubt any seeds live through that.pine needles,that happen to be mixed in manure also if from camillia bed or roses& figs.alot of my trees are oak and those are good leaves for compost.Elm are not.when i turn my pileI also turn some of the soil under it.& comeing back from town one day found a bale of hay on side of road...yep pulled over grabbed it up and brought to compost pile.....after letting my neighbor have some of it for his dogs bedding.summers pile gets hit with coastal showers in afternoon so sometimes have to cover pile with plastic so not wet all the time.& my piles got critters crawling in it too

Weezie,

Great post on composting! I've never done it before, so I may give it a try. I don't have a lot of ground to work with, especially *hidden* if you know what I mean. The only hidden area would be my back yard which is a lot smaller than my front because I have a tier. That's where we BBQ, so I'm not sure if it would work with the smell.

Barbara

Bill has some great info:

http://www.thegardenhelper.com/compost.html

Barb,
Composting is not hard, but sometimes it can
get the best of you when you are first learning...
Depending on what you compost will give you smell.
or how you compost.....

If you only do grass clippings, or too many,
that will give you a slurry, and green mush,
and that will definately give you a smell.......
If you do too many kitchen scrap's and not enough brown to compensate, that too will give you a smell...
In the spring time, when the ground is so wet and all the things you've put in~in the fall~that didn't have time to decompose fully, then now all start to decompose, and with spring wetness, you may have an order, but once you get the hang of it, you'll know exactly what to do with it to correct it in a very short period of time.........
And different styles of compost bins will also give you different results.........
I have 2 different plastic bins, 3 the same type wooden bins (home made actually) and 1 double barreled compost tumbler...Each gives me different results and have to do things different to each bin when it starts to "act funny"
~Mostly to correct it, I give it a good turning, and get out more dry or brown items.....also soil, some from last years pots, cemetary pot and dirt finds, and the best thing to get a compost back into healthy smell is previous compost from a previous pile... it's already got alot of composting action going on with the microbe's and such and will quickly work their wonders on the new pile.. (even go to the woods, and scrape a little of the forrest floor up, not too much, don't want to disturb the eco~system of the dirt there, but a handful here or there, I like to take a bit of a rotting tree too, (in well advanced stages of decomposition....) or chopped leaves!!!

They even have the compost starters somewhere's, seems like a put a post up for "RINGERS",
You can also add is beer too or wine or wine coolers, home made wine, even PEPSI!! (for the moisture if there's not enough)

Weezie

almost forgot,
the bins, The one green bin I have, plastic,
has a base and two pcs for the top, on side or the other comes off, compost tumblers
On the URL, almost to the bottom on right hand side...(called, NO TOOL~ ULTIMATOR)
~That one has a slit in the top where the two sides meet, which let's in alot of moisture, so that one, I don't have to put as much water in....
~The brown one, which has a flat top on it, is dry alot more of the time, and that's when I do add the other liquids' to compensate.....
~The wooden one's, were made of shipping crates...
Hubby just took 3/4" router bit, and took it to the sides and cut holes in it.....for air.........
I have 3 of those, and they have flat tops too, so are also on the drier side...
~The Mantis double barrel tumbler is good, fast, but you have to chop everything up to get it to decompose quick, they don't really tell you that,.....but it does work, and you have to have the double tumbler, because you need time to let it sit, while the other's working.... because even if you tumble for 2 weeks, adding new each day, the last day you put in compost, that last load, still needs at least 2 weeks of sitting and turning to work....I've also posted before a slight flaw in it, allows for water to flow through it when it rains, well, instead of feeding the ground, I decided to put under it, 2 buckets right under where it drips, and get instant compost tea, wonderful stuff too, I think it's an added feature.
~Also, have 2 large piles in the back 40, the first is already rendered down and have planted some ferns in it and Pulsatilla and some campanula's around it...
The others is working, and I load tree branches down first, grass clippings, extra leaves I have no where's more to stuff in my bins, dirt from escavating something (always turned upside down, so roots are in the air and green is on the bottom and dies, I watch intently, the dirt and worms are good for the pile, the weeds are NOT!!!)

Weezie,

I will have more question later, but am I understanding you to mean that you can start a compost pile where you intend to plant something for the next year? So, if I want to improve the soil before I plant there, I could just make a pile on the ground and add to it?

You gave such a lot of information that I think I will need to print it and file it.

Also, how much compost do you need? For example I will need to import dirt this spring to re-grade my house and fill in some uneven areas to make the property more level in places. How much will need to go on top of my gardening beds...an inch, two inches?

Anyway..thanks for the help....and I'll have more questions later!

Depending on WHEN you want to plant in these beds, I would suggest a method that is sometimes called 'lasanga gardening'....

I'm no expert, so I will try to explain it, then the big composters can come and correct me!

Basically, you map out the area you want for the bed(s), then lay down wet cardboard or thick chunks of newspaper (to choke out weeds)...followed by lasanga-like layers of materials (i.e. leaves, grass clippings, horse manure, coffee grounds). Keep in mind, the smaller the pieces, the quicker the process goes.

Some say you can plant in this in a few months, some say to wait a year.

Oh, and I think you can cover the whole thing with dirt if you are worried about the smell? Weezie???

Barb and Barley,
First off, I want to say, I love composting
but I am a rotten teacher, so anything you have questions on that I may not have explained right, didn't sound right, or just can't figure out,
DO NOT HESITATE TO RE~ASK!!!!
*I was born a composter not a teacher/explainer..
*I'm rotten at typing too!!!

First Barb,
You wrote,
This depends on you and your style of gardening...
I am a very poor and patient gardener right now..... (Young children and a mother at home, so I go no where's, I have all day to compost, and I figured I'm here for many springs, with mother/kids so, if I want to garden my whole yard someday, or work new area's eventually, that's exactly what I do, but I also have many bins to do this process.) You may not have that option...
And even I wish the process was speedier, but it's not, it's a slow process for "ground bins"
I have to look where you are from, ah, my area/zone, you're in the same boat as I with a short time to do it in too... Winter slows the composting process down to NIL, when it freezes...
(now for Barley's area, she can compost year round I'm assuming, no real freezing temp's or looonnnnnnnnnnng period of temp's like this way..)
I also start my bins in Fall, when I'm cutting grass and the falling leaves, *the BEST~TIME TO START* let the grass grow abit for at least half the tree falling down, the grass is tall and the leaves are plentiful, and you're doing two things at once, cutting the grass *which is green* and chopping the leaves *which is brown* you chop those again and drive over again, fill your bin, add a layer of say old dirt from a potted plant from summer, layer more grass/leaves, throw in some kitchen scrap's, dried stems from hosta flowers, and dried lillie stalks, etc... another layer of grass/leaves, whatever you have.....
You'll be surprised in a days time you'll come out to a steaming compost, it'll be cooking, I'd leave it for a handful of days, to a week, go get a pitch fork or something you can turn it with, just sorta get the part of the bottom up to the top, and the top to the bottom, all this may sound funny, I am not a writer, nor a good story teller, it's hard to discribe sometimes when you read up enough on composting, BUT you need to get the feel for it, I was not an instant composter, I was frustrated a bit in the beginning, I live in town and with neighbors you can't have smelly composts.....*now if you want those neighbors NOT to say anything, start handing them some, and they shut right up....*I have enough of it to do that though too*
So, like the next year when I started my bins I put several sized branches, sticks, twigs into the bottom of the bin, let's air under it if I pack it too tight, you can't really get down into that when you reach your pitch fork in, and when the pile in those bins gets to the top, you can not get to the bottom to turn, just too much stuff in there, but between the good bugs from the bottom, worms, sow bugs, oh, there's so many, but they are eating and pooping away dirt and decaying matter and the brown and green all work hand in hand....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But back to what I quoted you saying about being able to plant there, where you had the bin, ok....
I start them in the fall, they get alot of cooking in before they freeze, but then freeze for the whole winter, Dec~April??? Depends on winter's really. Once spring hits, and it starts to thaw, it'll start cooking again, and you can add the whole summer into that bin, make sure you have brown, *don't throw every last leaf you have in the fall in to the bins, I keep a good amount off to the side, because if you use table scrap's into your bin, which is your green, you will be starving for brown to put in between the layers....When you clean up the rest of your garden in the spring, that's brown too, I will start another pile too, (each gardener has his/her own style of
gardening too, some clean the entire garden in the fall, some leave it for spring, I do half an half..... I leave somethings up like I leave the stalks on the hosta's everything right where it layed in the fall/winter, some times you have no choice, it's a long fall and then snow falls and it's all over until spring...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But back to the bins and planting under neath them, see how bad I am at teaching?
but I keep that bin going all summer long, and come fall I start another bin...... let the original one sit, then come spring of the following year, when I am planting veggies, I empty that first bin by sifting it...

*Have I told you about the sifting part???????/
Right about now you may be throwing your hands in the air going, I could buy a bag of compost cheaper, probably could but it's the love of recycling, making useless items, to rich, black gold......

Alright, you have to find some kind of sieve or sifter (*oh for gosh sakes, not the kind you'd strain spaghetti with or flour for a cake mix*), Mine is metal, with a wooden frame, stapled to the sides. I load it up on top of my wheelbarrow, or Ames garden cart, I'll see if I can hunt you up a picture of this or drawings on how to make one...
(I am having my father~in~law make me something someday, so it's larger...) but, then just sift as needed, or do one wheelbarrow at a time......
I do it both ways, it does take a long time to do this.... I used to have access to really old horse manure and rabbit poop and mixed that, I didn't feel like dragging that stuff down from the hill. but I suppose you can buy bags of manure to mix in if you didn't already mix it in as you went with the composting. (manure is considered a "green" source)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyhow, back to the part about growing underneath it, (sleepy yet?
I hope not, its soooooooo worth it, when you are all done adding, turning, turning, adding, turning, waiting, sifting, sifting, and you
have this huge cart full of black, bodacious black gold in your hands you'll say to yourself, this is the exact reason I do all this, no better feeling in the world, oh, alright, there may be a few but I can't get into that because this is a gardening site........
I"m going to stop and give your eyeballs a rest..
and I have to start dinner, but I want to come back to Barley's post too!!!!

Weezie

Weezie, Weezie...take a breath!!!

That was a great post, and yes I do understand what you are saying, and no, I wasn't yawning!

As for saying you're not a teacher?!?!? Are you kidding me??

I'm going to print it out for future reference. I am a not a very patient, but I am a poor gardener too....I don't expect a big budget...however this being the first year I can really plant, I'm planting!!
However, I'll need to be careful, buy the most plant material on the cheap...pick and choose....but I definiately want to get a few special things. I can play with planting seeds in some of the beds, and see what happens, but I'll try to be a patient gardener and work on a section at a time, instead of playing both sides from the middle, if ya know what i mean!

I tend to do things....rather overdo things....so you are wise to caution patience....not my forte So, maybe I'll start small for once!

Weezie, did you forget about me?

Oh, No, Barley, wouldn't forget about you!!
I had a boyscout project, and had to get some stuff together for tonights', boyscout meeting, at 3:30pm..And of course shoveling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Sometimes I'm slow and like to post long posts, no, I know, it's hard to believe I like long posts, :rolleyes: , just wanted time to work on your post...)
Anyhow, I wanted to do some reading on one of the words you said, and get back to you on it,
I promise when I get home from scouts today, I"ll finish my reading and post back to you............

That's been burning a hole in my typewriter too!!

Are you composting???
How about dad???

You two are going to need alot of organic matter for those GUNNERA'S!!!!!

Have you been reading up on those plants?
I sent your dad alot of info on them.>>
Did he send some on to you??

Weezie

I was really just teasin' ya! I know your busy...


He did, and I'm trying to compost...I don't think I'll EVER have enough... :rolleyes:

The lasagna style would work for where I want the firefighter garden...now I just need to make it happen!

Well, here goes Barley,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why I wanted to make a reply back on this was because, when I heard you use the term "Lasagna"
I thought of a different process that I thought was called "Lasagna composting".
And didn't know that what I had been doing for years had a name to it, and all these people were doing it!!! GO FIGURE!!!! :rolleyes:
I thought I'd made up the idea??? Mmmmmmm???

I read up on this Barley, and they all said the same thing, and some also were in agreeance about the planting time afterwards.... I would wait one season and a half for the total benefits,
Start in fall, let it go the entire summer and do not use until the following spring time.....

I start mine way ahead of time, putting some more on the top, the next fall into winter.....
Just add's to it, but like I said, I am patient, and I have a reasonable sized yard, and I have way too many other things to keep me occupied.
This method may be for some, some may think it's not for them... Organically and for the dirt, it's one of the better ways to go though!)

Anyhow, if the gardener really feels the need to plant, after doing all that work of layering and ammending, I also tell them to go and fine the smallest or finest mulch and layer it on top of it, then get a bird bath or some statue's.....
Go to the Dollar Store and get a bunch of pots and rectangle containers, some dirt, and go to town so to speak, get to plantin'...............
It get's the planting urges out of the way, you have fun making up some pots, or rectangle containers, or do those hypertufa trough that Rue does, and nestle them all in between each other, and would look really cute.
Maybe at the back a sheppard's pole or two
*(Don't poke through the stuff you laid down, or
the tenacious weeds will poke their weedy heads up
through there and go "thank~you for that"!!!
But some windchimes or lanterns...
Something fun to keep you busy in a area you're working on....

But the other method of what I thought you started to mean was, as I always called it,
Lasagna method, was straight in to the garden bed, and this is for like a vegetable bed, but
you were to map it out in sections............
(strips or rows like) You dig your first row, and as the days go by, you fill it with your kitchen scrap's, etc..... litely fill back in so it discourages animals nibbling on, as the first one is filled up (put a board over it to walk on it so you don't sink into the dirt), dig the second strip and cover the first hole/trench back up with the kitchen scrap's sealed in.... mark that strip and don't touch it*put the board over that and walk on it, garden in all the rest.....
The following year you start start throwing in the garbage into the next hole/trench, and do the same thing, and then dig the next hole/trench and finally you can use the first year's strip, and it's filled with compost, no rototilling and such, *as long as you don't walk on it)

which saves you time in turning it over, shaking and seiving it, and re~planting it.....
It's all right there, and it's drawing the worms and good bugs right there....

I don't do this, because, well, there's probly a few, hubby wouldn't be exactly thrilled.......... Or animals...
but the biggest reason for me would be,
I'd start to loose track of which track I was working on, and start digging up the wrong tracks.

Weezie

Thanks, Barl!

You know...I have two areas that I think may be just the ticket for that method.

LOL! I forget who it was said they had an icecream bucket on their counter for this...well I started one too....only just realized that I should probably wait until spring!! Since I raked all the fall leaves....plus we've got six inches of snow on the ground!

OH well, live and learn!!

Oh, don't wait for spring!

Barley,
Um, er, ah, It might be a bit hard to get that cardboard down through 6"-12"-24" or more " of snow right now!!!

My back yard is up to my past my knees......
Barb's just below me somewhere's on the map.....

Oswego, in the Northern middle part of N.Y.
got a record breaking 5+ ft of snow!!!!

And I remember one year here, we got a snow storm/blizzard on May 8th, Mother's Day.....

It's hard to say when it thaws around here,
could be about March(ish)

Weezie

No, silly! Just a regular 'pile it all up in one spot' pile...that's what I've been doing...using kithen scraps and whatever 'brown' I can find...usually cardboard food boxes, like cereal, ripped into small pieces, and soaked in whatever...usually leftover soda, tea, ect. that gets dumped into the compost bucket...


Would that work for you right now?

I thought we were talking the "lasagna style"
for the making of the bed, not the actual compost pile/bins.....

One thing you said was;
Just one point to make, NOTHING SHINEY!!

For my own personal taste, I never do cereal boxes, or what I remember hearing nothing that has a shiney side, you may not know what the INK is made of??????????
*card board should be a dull color*
So, if one side is shiney, I don't use it...
Could be me!!!
(I'd like to find a site that gives the facts on that, I've heard that if the ink is made of a vegetable base, it's usable....)

For me, I've got my kitchen scrap's/compost in gallon sized ziplock baggies, in my back~mudroom that's not heated, so it stays cold, but not frozen.
And I seal them shut... I have alot
of compost, so one pail wouldn't work for me...
Some day when I win the lottery, I'd like those
compost pales that have the charcoal filters on
top, of course, I'd need alot of buckets!!!!!!

Weezie