A Gardeners Forum Forums Members History Forum Life 2005 Black Earth, so the package says

I bought some "black earth" recently, and did a routine check of the company selling it. I found that the package name is a subsidiary of a subsidiary of a subsidiary... I wrote asking what's actually in the 'black earth' because there is a specific type of soil with that name.
Someone from the conglomerate finally replied that it's a "generic" name they use for soil, it's a combination of soil and compost, and that's all they'd say except that it's "organic" but not "certified organic."

1) Is it allowed to mention the company's name in this forum?
2) Has anyone had bad experiences with companies that use the term "black earth" so freely?
3) What might be the worst scenario with compost and soil whose source and contents the company refuses to discuss.
4) If the stuff is likely garbage, is it at all salvageable, and if so, then what is the safest way to deal with it so that it might be useful later (say, after a winter of leaching certain things out of it)?

Thanks!

My landlord bought some "black earth" it was bark/woodchips dyed a uniform black in color lol. I didn't know where to look he was so proud of himself. Most bark type mulch takes about two years to breakdown unless you compost it. And the first year it leaches nitrogin out of the soil I think. I can't begin to imagine what the dye may or maynot do to the soil.

I'm curious what did you think your were buying? Is "black earth" suppose to be something special? I'm new to gardening and am always looking to learn something new. I've been making compost with a little trashcan and really appreciate the rich black soil that is the finished product. Is black earth suppose to be something like that?

Hi Greg! I don't see why you couldn't give the name of the company...of course I'm sure the mods know better

Worst scenario is relative to your personal feelings about being organic, I think. I know that bulk operations make compost with sewage sluge. That's nausiating enough for me not to want to even think about using it. Chances are, like I think you're implying, if they're not talking about it, it's nothing to be proud of. The problem with leaching it is, whatever you leach is going back to the water tables...so I'm not real sure how to answer ya there.

well, as a hostess (moderator), and a gardener, and someone who tries to be fairly organic, here are the answers as i see them.

first, if what you bought isn't what you expected, and isn't returnable, i'd compost it. put it into the compost bin that you use for ornamentals only if you are at all concerned about the safety of it. as for leaching it into the water table, that is always a concern, but i'll say that is tempered by how deep the water table is, and just what you are afraid of leaching.

also, while i am not familiar with term "black dirt" other than lava products, i am familiar with what is often called "night dirt" which is compost made from sewage sludge. that has it's own particular issues, namely those of health.

finally, with regards to naming the company here, yes you can. you just need to make sure that you are specific that you are only relaying your experience in the idea that you are looking for more information. an example of this is when i say that i prefer miracle gro potting soils over schultz. or, "has any one used miracle gro african violet food".

so, your saying that you bought something from xyz who turned out to belong to jkl who belonged to mno who actually was part of abc, and NONE of them could/would tell you why they had something they called "black dirt" and it was just sand & compost of indeterminate origins, then, that is perfectly ok, and actually appreciated because then it tells the rest of us not to buy from xyz unless we are sure that we are getting what we pay for!

now that you are totally confused, pm me or any administrator if you are afraid something will be out of line. or just post it, then put a moderator alert on it to ask if it is ok. we'll fix it if it isn't!

Hi, and thanks for all the replies.

http://www.bioag.ab.ca/products/humates/humates.html says, "BLACK EARTH is a trademarked name that represents a number of products made from humalite. It is a naturally occurring raw material found adjacent to the sub bituminous coal fields of southern Alberta".

Ooh. Hear that, Taraxacum? Jurassic mud. Yum.

I bought a few bags of 'black earth' late in the year and there wasn't much else still being sold. Given that it was still around when nothing else was, I wasn't expecting that I was buying Alberta humalite. But how close it might be to that, I had to know anyway. I check products as much as I can.

I won't waste the reader's time with my own thoughts and feelings on the company(s), but here's a link for those interested: http://www.nu-gro.com/about/history.php

I'm in the country, with my own septic tank and weeping bed; if nothing else, this mystery soil could be used in that area for non-comestible decoratives, as was suggested here.

I'd like to find cheap ways of testing this stuff. I don't know if it contains industrial waste or human waste or pesticides or black dye, as was also pointed out here, And what Labs cost in time and money discourage most people from finding out.

Maybe that's where I should put a bit more focus, finding home-made methods for soil testing. I must have a pendulum, a rat, and some litmus paper around here someplace, I'll start with those...

Thanks again everyone for the replies.

lol

greg, thanks for clearing up what you thought you were buying. one option for you is to find out who owns the copyright/trademark on black earth, and contact them so they know what is being illegally marketed under their name. i'm sure they'd do the testing, and go after the imposter.

My understanding about "black earth" is that it is prehistoric humate. Discovered in vast subterranean deposits, this ancient compost has been mined and sold as the richest soil available.
I don't know if the company or companies mining and selling this old soil coined the phrase 'black earth' or have legal rights to it; so I've no idea whether there are imposters undertaking illegal marketing.
Were that the case, it might lead to soil testing by one company of another's product, but this data wouldn't very likely be released outside legal exchanges.

I purchased the bags of 'black earth' mainly because that's all that was left at the store, and I wondered here if anyone had used the product or had any prior experience with similar products by this company.
At the moment I'm more concerned about whether it's safe to use at the food garden.

Currently I'm searching for qualified independant soil testing facilities - labs and technicians who represent low probability of 'quiet' sponsorships or 'data leaning'.
(Example of the latter: http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Monsanto-Tricks-Atrazine.htm)

I'm increasingly worried that the 'mutations' have spread to now include even the definitions for "soil" and "organic."

Thanks again for the input.

Well, I'm new to gardening and i needed some potting soil,so i bought some at wal-mart It said it was all purpose soil it was cheap too But what I found in the couple bags I had were chunks of small rocks, a piece of a plastic tie , those long ones to tighten thing with, oh and not sure what else I was keeping it, But I was so upset that I didn't want to look at it anymore. I think I just dumped it. Now I will never buy that stuff from wal-mart/ their brand ever again.It's like they just dug up some ones yard and bagged it. So then, I bought the soil with plant food in it think it was miracle gro. well that was almost $8.00 for a bag it was a big one, but now I'm glad I'm starting to compost and I will have better soil then that bagged stuff soon. Dee

Hi Greg

welcome.This discussion has been very informative.

great links,and good reading.

Ladybug,
At our local Wally~World, if there is a ripped bagged of soil, we can get it for 30% off.....
not sure if they do that in your area, but worth
a find out!!!

*****GregP, Very glad you are here...
Thanks for finding us.... and stick around,
also enjoyed your posting...LOVE READING INFO!!!

Yes it was Weezie. It was sad!!

I agree...
Luckily, I had snagged a boat load of
ripped bags... and check back often thru
the season..
so this year we stock piled some serious dirt..
I have 8 or 9 bags and my mom has 5..
We're ready for some potting up plants next spring.
Can't wait already!!!
****Geesh, I got it bad**** :rolleyes:

I'm glad I checked out these messages. I have also bought this Black Earth and wondered exactly what it was. Doesn't sound good to me. I also heard that Miracle Grow leaches all the nutrients out of the soil. Anyone know anything about this? Carol

nah, doesn't happen that way. the only ways to leach nutrients out is to either run water (constant flow, ie, it becomes sand...) or over use it for crops/plants. then it isn't leaching, it's depleting. also, the one thing you may have heard is that some material actually uses nitrogen (a major plant food) in the break down. that is why you have to compost leaves first.

You are right depleting is the word I wanted to use.