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#24723 October 23rd, 2004 at 02:09 AM
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hi....i'm new to this area of the forum...(so much to read) anyway i did a seed exchange with a few people, only i'm new to gardening and now that i have all these seeds.....well, i'm just not sure when to plant them. heres a list of stuff i got. if someone has the time maybe they can tell me what needs to be planted in the fall. i would hate to miss out on fall planting. thank you so much!
My List:
humming bird vine (cypress vine)
stella d'oro
balsam
cockscomb
liatris
cosmos
brown (not black?) eyed susans
snap dragon
canna seed pods
straw flower
i'm in zone 5 if that helps.
thanks again!!

#24724 October 24th, 2004 at 10:07 AM
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Hi Linda,
Great collection of seeds. First let's break them down into annuals and perennials.

Annuals:
cypress vine
balsam
cockscomb
cosmos
snapdragon
canna
strawflower

Perennials:
stella d'oro daylily
liatris
brown eyed susan

For your annuals, here are directions from this site.
http://www.thegardenhelper.com/growingseeds.html

For your perennials, winter sowing is easy and works well.


How to Winter Sow seeds Outdoors

It really is very easy to do as per Trudi Davidoff.

I am a true believer in "recycle and reuse". I had been saving my take-out containers from the Chinese restaurant (not those typical white boxes that have a metal handle and white rice inside), but the foil pans that have a separate clear plastic lid, they're usually round or rectangular. These containers were just perfect. The plastic containers that are rectangular and have clear plastic lids work just as well. I went to Walmart and got their brand which is the cheapest I could find.

seed selection:

Take a look at a seed catalogue, most will have some sort of notation about a seed's germination requirements, or you'll pick up a few clue-in phrases. Look for these terms:
Needs Prechilling (freeze seeds, refrigerate seeds, stratify for x amount of day or weeks)
Needs Stratification
Will Colonize
Self Sows
Sow outdoors in early Autumn
Sow outdoors in early spring while nights are still cool
Sow outdoors in early spring while frosts may still occur
Hardy seeds
seedlings can withstand frost
Can be direct sown early
Wildflower
weed (such as butterfly weed, joe pye weed, jewel weed)

Common Names indicating a natural environment:
Plains, Prairie, Dessert, Mountain, Swamp, Field, etc.

Look for names that might indicate an origin in a temperate climate:
Siberian
Chinensis
Polar
Alpine
Orientale
Canadensis
Russ (indicating Russian origin)

Think about your own garden, and your neighbors' gardens too. Do you find plants that have volunteered each spring and shown up as seedlings that you didn't sow? These are very good choices. Let's say that your orange marigolds have returned in spring as volunteer seedlings ....... you can then be pretty well assured that gold, lemon, African or French varieties will also reseed for you too, when it comes down to it a marigold is a marigold is a marigold.

A lot of catalogues will have a germination table, or some information about germination, look at them, study them, and learn.

To make a flat you take the foil container (of course it's clean, washed in hot soapy water) and a paring knife. Stab a few slits in the bottom of the pan, this is for drainage. Now fill the pan with soil to about a half inch from the top. Give it a real good drink and let it drain. After the pan has drained sow your seeds and pat them down. Cover them with more soil to the correct depth if necessary. With tiny seeds just sprinkle them on top of the soil, pat them down, and that's that.

Now you need to put the lid on BUT FIRST ......... and this is the very most important step ....... take the knife and poke several slits in the clear plastic lid. This is for air transpiration. Think about it, you're making a little mini greenhouse. If you don't vent the air that is heated by the sun you'll cook your flat and the seeds won't germinate. You'll bake them to death. Put the lid on secure by folding down the foil rim. Now the seeds are sown.

Uh oh.......back it up, I forgot a step that you may wish to use: labeling. Get some freezer tape, or any tape that you know will work well after being frozen. Pull off a piece and stick it to the bottom of the flat. Write the variety name on it with a laundry marker (or a sharpie). You can do this before or after sowing, if you do it afterwards make sure you wipe the bottom of the flat well as freezer tape doesn't really adhere as good as you'd like to a damp surface. Label the tape before sticking it the bottom of the flat. The label is on the bottom of the flat because the sun can't bleach it down there.

All right, the flat is now sown and covered (with little slits in the top, yes? don't forget!!). Now take it outside to somewhere it will be safe for the winter. I put them on a picnic table top away from my curious puppy. I learned my lesson, I lost a flat of daylilies (the first I sowed this way) because I put them on the ground under a bush and the puppy found them and thought the flat was a toy, and she promptly killed it by shaking it to death. After that all the flats went up on the table out of her reach. Sad loss, but an excellent lesson.

Now you just wait it out. When the weather warms the flats will freeze and thaw repeatedly as winter gives way to spring. This action of freezing and thawing helps loosen the seed coat. You'll often see the term "nick or file seeds prior to sowing" in germination databases: this is to duplicate Mother Nature's work (now you don't have to do that anymore).

Amazingly, just when winter is about to break, and you're still getting nightly freezes, the first of your flats will begin to germinate. When I saw this I thought that the seedlings were goners, but they thrived. The seeds know when it's safe to come up, it's part of their genetics. Now is the time to check the moisture in the flats, on an above freezing day open them up and if they look like they need a drink give them one. The excess water will drain away. Don't forget to replace the lids tightly.

As your seedlings grow start widening the slits in the covers. Once a week or so make the slits a little bit bigger, eventually you'll have more open areas than covered and you'll be able to transplant the seedlings into the garden because they are completely hardened off. I have put in seedlings that barely had their first set of true leaves and they thrived in the ground.

After-transplant-care is typically the same as for indoor sown seedlings. They need a drink and just a little bit of food: 10% strength after their first week in the ground, then increase slowly as the season progresses. After about eight weeks and a few feedings your seedlings will be able to take a full strength feeding. Best to use something like fish emulsion.

Alternate seed flats:

I have used plastic milk jugs and 2 litre soda bottles too, just cut around the middle almost all the way through. Make the drainage slits. Fill with dirt, water, drain, sow, cover with more dirt (the same procedure as above). Tape the cut edges together and simply remove the cap for air transpiration.

Cardboard orange juice or milk containers can be used with a baggie. Cut them in half, horizontally or vertically, make the drainage slits and sow your seeds by the same method above. Slip the flat into a baggie, tie it closed with a twist tie or a knot and use the knife to make a few slits for air transpiration, put a few slits in the bottom of the baggie for drainage.

Coolwhip tubs: Make the drainage slits, sow your seeds as above. Take a scissors and cut out the center of the lid, leaving about an inch around the inside of the rim. Put a piece of saran wrap over the tub, put on the lid. This holds the saran wrap "window" snugly. Take the knife and make some slits in the saran wrap for air transpiration.

Here's a site about seeds that should be helpful as well.
http://theseedsite.co.uk/

Hope this helps,
Newt

#24725 October 24th, 2004 at 02:56 PM
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Wow Newt, you're simply amazing with all the information. Thank you!! I too just got seeds this year, and not sure what to do with them. I was just gonna wait till spring, and throw em in the flower beds and see what happens..lol.

Meg

#24726 October 24th, 2004 at 06:15 PM
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thank you newt......i love all the options on containers, i like when its stuff i have around the house. this is such valuable information. and not difficult at all. i thought i'd gotten in over my head with the seeds, and then having to search all those plants would have taken forever. your a life saver, not only did you share your knowledge......but you gave me some great stuff i can do basically inside when its to cold to go out. and i thought gardening had to end when it gets cold...one more question. about the type of soil i should use, i there special soil for planting seeds or just regular potting soil?
thanks for you time....
Linda muggs

#24727 October 24th, 2004 at 10:14 PM
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hi newt.....silly me, i went to the first website you recommended....guess what was there? my soil question.....geez nutz
anyway, thanks again
Linda

#24728 October 24th, 2004 at 11:14 PM
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I'm so glad you found that helpful. I was really amazed at how easy it was to do once I read about it. The germination rates were fantastic for me and I like doing it that way. No fuss. I guess we really should all thank Trudi, but I'm certain she 'knows' anyway. angell

Meg,
You could just cast the seeds in the area you want them to grow, best done in the fall, as many seeds need the freeze and thaw for germination. That's even less fuss, though the germination rates tend to be lower. The good thing about casting them in the garden is that only the strongest sprout and survive. Then you just thin out the ones you don't want or transplant them where you want them.

Linda,
Actually there is a special seed mix that I've found, but it's so finely screened that I don't really like it.

Happy sowing!
Newt


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