A Gardeners Forum Forums Members History Forum Life 2005 Bible Study II - Despair

I wanted to leave a few spaces open on the topic of FAITH and give anyone room to wrap it up while we start to think about the new topic.

NEW TOPIC: DESPAIR

In looking online and through my own Bible, the story of Job really shows to me a lot about despair. I have not read the entire story yet but that is my plan for this next section of our study as I am sure it will show, based on what I have read so far that even in our deepest despair, we must put our fate in the Lord"s hands so that He may deliver us. In my Bible there is a passage before the Book of Job starts.

“Job presents a striking example of the news behind the news – of God at work behind the scenes of human suffering. After numerous attempts by Job and his friends to uncover the reasons for his suffering, God himself enters the dialog with a majestic description of his power and love. As you read this book, realize that God may not answer all your questions about life"s suffering; realize too that God does control Satan, who can go no further than the Lord allows”

This is what's so wonderful about the Bible. Each of us can have our own take on things as long as it's appropriate.

I've never thought of Job as a book of despair. I would put it under the faith category, or rather lack of faith category. I've always thought that because Job thought "that which I feared most has come upon me" that his lack of faith is why this was allowed. His lack of faith is how the devil was able to work his mischief. Job 26:7 is my favorite verse in the Bible. This one verse shows the awesomeness of God.

He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Sheri, you are so right. I have been reading the book all day long and have gained a whole new outlook on the story.

What I did originally was to look up despair in a concordance. That brought me to Chapter 3 of Job and in reading just that, out of context of the rest of the book, seems to be very much about a person in absolute despair. To want the day of his birth totally wiped out seemed to me to be the bottom of despair.

So of course, I thought it would be a good place to start. And posted that. (Notice I also posted that I had not read the entire book at all)

I'd like to disagree with you that Job's lack of faith caused his woes. In the first and second chapters it states that the Lord told Satan that no other on earth was like Job in his faithfullness. Then the Lord allowed Satan to wreak havoc in Job's life to test his faith.

I'm basing that comment on what Job said about "what I feared most"...He prayed for his sons in case they didn't do it themselves. Maybe faith isn't the right word. In the end he turned out not cursing God and everything was given back. And I've always wondered about that because it wasn't the original children. Wonder how Job felt about that.

I saw that line as fear that the Lord has forsaken him, being what he feared most. And even though he thought that his worst fears had happened, he still did not curse the Lord.

He prayed for his children and gave offerings for them and had them purified. He was as concerned with his childrens righteousness as his own, as we all should be.

I have not read to the part where he got it all back. Have to work slowly and read each chapter more than once to really get it.

He lived through so much when others would have cursed the Lord for losing less. There was much reason to despair there and as a people in general we do despair over less lost.

It would be very tempting to give in to despair now with what is happening here following the hurricane. But that is the message of Job - his faith sustained him through the worst that could ever happen. His wife told him to just curse God and die because that would put an end to his misery. Instead he went to worship. To me that was the most intriguing and compelling part of the whole book. He lost everything but he worshiped God anyway. David did the same thing when his child with Bathsheba died.

In the end all is restored to Job, his children aren't replaced, he just has more. I think we would all agree that love is astonishing in it's ability to spread and increase. The loss of those children cannot be made up for with replacement children but he can love and care for the young ones as he did for his older ones. And truthfully, the need to care for the children that we have or new babies that are born does help us to focus on what we have and not solely on what we have lost.

His friends exhibited false righteousness in their desire to blame. Job, because he did not sin, was able to argue with God and God spoke to him. It's a wonderful book of loss, love and redemption.

I know I don't post much on here but this is first palce I come and get caught up on my reading. You have no idea how much you ladies have helped me just by posting the way you have been. I agree Job is a great book of total faith in God regardless of what happens to you. I know your probably sick of hearing about my Billie but when she passed away first thing I did was ask God to take her in his kingdom and thanking him for giving me such a wonderful wife and companion for thirty years. I never once thought about blaming God because she died we both knew she didn't have long which did not help one bit. If not for God pulling me through I have no idea what would have become of me. but my faith that God would lead and direct me through my life without her has helped me go on. And yes even after three years without her I get very depressed at times but then like Vanessa said I think how she would feel about what has happened since she passed as she was a very emotional woman. I will try in the future to not talk about her so much but it is hard not to.
Jimmy

Bev, there are all kinds of places where people could give in to despair. So many instances where it was all so bleak but faith sustained them. That just amazes me so much because I have given in to despair. I have ranted and raved and cursed rather than drop to my knees and prayed and I want the rest of my life to be different than that. I want to turn to prayer when things arent going well and be thankful when things go well. I have a lot to learn from Job.

Jimmy, I never grow tired of hearing about Billie. I always smile knowing that you both shared a great and wonderful love than is so far beyond this world we live in. Your life with Billie is an inspiration to all of us so please do not stop talking about her!

Jimmy, you talk about Billie all you want. Whatever you are comfortable with.

Job is one of my favorite books in the bible. After losing a husband and 3 children to death, I identified with Job. But Job is a good teacher, he helped teach me NOT to take the easy way out, of the victim and also to have faith. To me Job is a message of Hope.

I have felt deep despair and longed for it to end. Amazingly, God worked through some other people to bring me back to a life of positiveness. I have been given great gifts.

I can't replace my lost children, but I now have grandchildren that I can love and 3 living daughters that fill me with joy. Who knew despair would lead me to joy?

The accounts of Job paints a big picture of the dark conditions we are put in that could bring a great deal of dispair...and over & over people ask the question...why do bad things happen to good people...people that are being obedient.

It was dark now, and Jesus had not yet come to them. John 6:17

And for me, just when you think it couldn't get any darker.....you would think that God would "fix" it...and he doesn't!

I think the disciples had the same expectation. They only did what they were told. Jesus told them to get in the boat...and they did. They didn't question the order; they simply obeyed it. It would have made perfect sense for them to question it or not do it at all...it was getting dark and I don't think they "wanted " to be in a boat in the dark. So what was the result of them being obedient? The answer is in the scripture above...it was dark...and Jesus had NOT yet come to them. So now...the wind picks up and the waves on the lake were getting bigger. They did what Jesus asked them to do and now look at the mess they are in...a great big storm. It is one thing to suffer for doing wrong...but to suffer for being obediet???What's up with that? And that is what we think...if I do good...I wont suffer and certainly wont be put in a situation of despair...But it happens.
So you know the disciples had to ask the same question..the storm is bad enough...but he led us out here to fend for ourselves...just "left" us out here in the middle of the storm.
If you dig into the scripture you find that they were out in that boat rowing for about 9 hours..that is a long night. So why did it take so long for Jesus to come to them...they were calling out to him..and they knew he was there just before they got in the boat.
In Mark (Mark 6:48)it says that during the storm Jesus saw his followers "struggling"...but he waited. He waited for the right time and THEN he came. So, I have always wondered what made it the "right" time? Why was the 9th hour better than the 4th or 5th hour. Why does God wait till our money is gone, or the illness gets worse...or the depression is deeper..WHY..
We don't know...we only know that HIS timing is right (there's that faith thing again)

Fernie you are an inspiration to me, today especially.

JV, please don't cut your friends here out of that part of your life. I for one love reading your posts and knowing just a little about Billie helps me to know you better.

mrsmessy, you said it best "It's a wonderful book of loss, love and redemption."

I think that having to go through the bad stuff helps us to treasure the good. Getting a taste of despair enables us to know how wonderful hope and faith feel.

Prophesy says that it is going to get a whole lot worse before it ever gets better. Can you imagine how awful it would be if our lives were only filled with good before the bottom fell out. We would indeed be lost.

ANother thing that strikes me about the reading I have done in Job is that his friends did not have the faith he did. His wife did not even have the faith that he did. It is similar to the lives we lead when many around us may not posses the same values that we do. There is so much temptation around us that can take us to a road that is not one we should be on. When we head down that road we open ourselves up to more despair. It is a cycle that can take us under if we allow it. It is why we must remember to do what we are doing right now and keep God in our hearts and in the forefront of our lives. With Him in our heart, the despair will not overwhelm us.

Tomorrow is the anniversary of 9/11 a time in US history that took many, many people to the edge of despair. Yet there are many examples out there of people who, knowing they would die, still fought back and that is what we too must do. We must fight to preserve our faith and it will not come to us if we sit idle and wait for it. We must seek the Lord and always work to please Him.

Sheri I have no intentions of cutting my friends here out of anything. You have no idea how much more bareble you all make my life. You make me laugh at your silly little antics and what you say. I ahdn't laughed in over three years before joining this forum. I guess I get my biggest laugh at Cindy making fun of herself. You are all very strong and wonderful women if I could I would hug you all.Better go before I say something I should and get in trouble.
Jimmy

They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. Psalm 126:5

And....do you know what Jesus is doing while we are in out times of trial & dispair?

He is carrying us that is why we only see one set of footprints.

Despair is what I think of as the devil's handiwork.

Heaven= is being with GOD.

Hell= being away from GOD----> DESPAIR!!

I hate the thought of the devil winning souls.

Exactly JV...he is praying for us!
Jesus wasn't in the boat with the disiples because he had gone to the hills to PRAY!!! He heard their cries and remained in prayer.

Because Jesus lives forever, he will never stop serving as a priest. So he is able always to save those who come to God through him because he always lives, asking God to help them Hebrews 7:24~25

So...where does that leave us? While Jesus is praying and we are still in the storm, what do we do? What the diciples did...KEEP ROWING! In that passage of Mark it said that the diciples "struggled" hard to row the boat. The word struggle is translated elsewhere as "tormented". That means it wasn't easy, it wasn't fun, and that is how most of life is.
There are moments of fun, days of celebration. We have a lot of days of "feasts...but we also have a lot of days of "bologna" sandwiches! And to have the feasts...we HAVE to endure the sandwiches!

So well said everyone. I am so full of happiness and joy and even better PEACE! I have never spent this much time in study of the Bible and I will never again not spend time doing this. SO thank you all for helping me to shove the seeds of despair out of my life! What a glorious day it is!

Triss...I have to tell you that it is real EASY to explain or help someone see God's word & purpose. It is a much more difficult thing to apply it to OUR life. I am a very perfect example of that! I know and study God's word and try to keep it fresh in my heart...but I am the VERY one that will get discouraged, panicked, desperate..right off the bat! It is something I have to CONTINUALLY strive for because I feel like I get knocked around every single day...and so many things I think should work out totally different just don't happen. Why I have to endure some of the things I do...I certainly didn't ASK for them. This isn't the life I signed up for! But...somewhere God has a purpose for this crazy plan that I am going through...I just get VERY discouraged through the journey. That is WHY God provides us with our friends and family that are constantly interceding in prayer on our behalf..........

Jimmy - I know I drive my friends and neighbors nuts talking about my son. The world has moved on and doesn't realize that the pain and loss are still fresh. Even after time passes that wound can be ripped open again when we least expect it. I'm sure that Fernie would probably agree that even though grief doesn't consume us it sure does occupy a big space. What I especially enjoy reading about your Billie is that after 30 years you still would prefer her companionship. We celebrated our 30th anniversary this summer and I hope that if I went my husband would miss me as much as you miss your wife.

Job and David became my companions in my time of greatest need, as well as 1 Peter. After about a year I woke up one morning with the realization that God did not create me to be joyless. That alone was enough to put "despair" in it's place. I also think we need to not confuse despair with sadness or clinical depression. Despair becomes a condition of the soul whereas sadness is situational and depression is treatable.

"We do not grieve like those who have no hope" First Thessalonians 4:13. No hope - that would be despair.

Triss - thank you for starting this.

Bev, I do agree....with everything you said.

I know it is harder to tell someone what to do that to do it for yourself, we all find ourselves in that situation. I am sure that I will have many more moments of termoil but for these last few days at least, I have been in peace and that is a very good thing!

Bev, I think that grief can certainly lead to despair but that it does not have to. I let grief take me to despair and beyond when my brother and his wife died. If I hadn't had my children to care for, I am very sure I would have stayed in that dark place, but I had to live for them. I am able to go through long periods of time without grieving but you are right when you said that it can hit hard. I am sure it is more difficult for my mom than for me.

I think I can speak on behalf of Nancy & Fernie as well as myself when I say that there is NO death...that compares to loosing your child. I thought the hardest thing I would ever have to face was when my mother passed away...little did I know it is so very different when you have a child...no matter what age...that dies. It is an unatural thing to bury one of your children...something none of us ever expect to have to do. And you have a choice before you..stop living altogether..or pick up the pieces and attempt to carry on. I must say that is would be MUCH easier to stop living...and have seen many people choose that route...the later is a much more difficult task. And...people will tell you it gets easier with time..I have not found that to be true. You learn to COPE differently with time...but never gets easier.

Well I think you expect to outlive your parents. And when they die, it hits hard, but you do not expect to outlive your children so when they die, it completely turns your world upside down.

Exactly! Never easier, but we learn to cope. I also have discovered that living with the aftermath of a death by suicide is different too. This is really unnatural as someone chose to die and leave. That can really lead to feelings of guilt and despair....eventhough it isn't about the people left behind at all. It takes a bunch of time to learn to realize that.

But Job had other problems besides the loss of his children. He lost everything he owned, he lost his health, he lost the respect and love of his spouse, and he lost the respect of his friends and acquaintences. Job had nothing but his life left and he never lost his faith either. He knew he hadn't done wrong, he just didn't know why all this misfortune had been visited upon him. Job like the vicitim role a little bit, so God let him have it too....where was Job when the earth was created? Who created the seas, awoke the morning? And Job humbled himself and apologized then worshiped the Lord.

So I think despair is a little bit me trying to take responsibilty for things that are not mine to be responsible for. Despair comes from me thinking I am the center of my universe. Despair comes from me not letting God be in control.

Just some thoughts.....