A Gardeners Forum Forums Members History Forum Life 2005 How to make a compost bin

T, I am so into this compost thing, it's not even funny! I don't know if I enjoy the flowers more, or the compost Kinda
well, it's great!

Don't forget too, if you run out of room
in your piles, and they aren't quite done,
but want to re~utilize the bins,
Take Black *or dark* plastic garbage bags,
empty your bins into those bags,
and put somewhere's out of the winter's elements.

Then come spring, you've got the pile in the
bag that's ready, and one that's just about
done too in your bins,
and you can empty that one....to get a faster start on the next one...
Makes composting faster sometimes, when you can
empty your composting area, leave the one sit
and get on with MORE NEW COMPOST!!!!!!!!!!

You two do a compost teacher proud!!!

Weezie, gotta question about the garbage bag thing. I remember reading something about spontaneous combustion

I have a couple of bags inside a wire fenced
area.. one on top of each other...

I did keep three bags inside a plastic box
w/lid outside under my big maple tree..

And a couple in my stone basement like thing..

but, my compost is not hot, not even remotely
by the time I put it in a bag...
It's on it's last leg of just breaking apart...
not actually "working", it's just that if you're
not quite ready to use the compost yet, say,
wrong time of year...like fall, and you'd like to
do something with whats' in the bin, but have no where's to put it yet... and want to start on the next bin...
You're not holding the bin up by holding almost completely finished compost..is when you put it in the bags...

and the spontanious combustion,
though I am noooooooooo expert on that,
happens when the Dry grass, is then wrapped
so tight, and it's got a wee~bit of moisture on
the inside and that's when it gets all hot and steamy and starts to cook the dried items...

although, I believe, and I could be totally wrong, but because there's wet green stuff in
the compost, it's only a cooking stage with microbe's to render down the piece's/parts down,
not to actually start a fire, the green stuff
I don't think would allow it..

I could be a monkey on that one, say if the compost pile wasnt' made completely correctly
and too much brown was added, then maybe????
Not 100% sure~~~~~~~~~>? ?

I was just thinking about trying to save a bunch of the leaves that are going to fall so I don't have to lose so much of the grass clippings because Jimmy won't give them to me unless I have space for them. I'm not exactly sure where I could put them but I've been looking around some. Hopefully something will come to me. You know the leaves all by themselves won't have the chemical reaction so that would be safe. And leaves is what we are going to be neck high in pretty soon lol.

Weezie you are a great teacher. You got me totally motivated to do the compost thing and it's been such fun to have mary to compare notes with since we are pretty much at the same point in the process.

TK If you 'squarsh' em down you'd be surprised how many leaves you can get in a bag - but that may be a pretty tricky task to do by yourself...but you're so resourceful, I'm sure you'll figger out a way

I was thinking the same thing you said Weezie...so I went looking around to see if it was right, and I found this from UM Extension :

"Questions sometimes arise about spontaneous combustion in compost piles. Spontaneous combustion is the occurrence of fire without the application of an external heat source and can be caused by chemical, biological, or physical processes. Organic material can ignite spontaneously due to biological activity at moisture contents between 26-46% moisture if the temperature exceeds 200 degrees F. These high temperatures only occur with restricted air flow and piles exceeding a height of seven feet. Spontaneous combustion happens to stored hay or silage and only in rare cases to compost. No documented cases of spontaneous combustion have been reported for compost piles smaller than seven feet. Most reported fires occurring in compost piles are the result of external sources such as matches or the addition of hot ashes. In short, a well maintained compost pile with temperatures less than 150 degrees F will not spontaneously combust. If a compost pile gets too hot--more than 160 degrees F--you can cool it down by 1) reducing the size of the pile; 2) adding water to 55% moisture; or 3) mixing in coarse, bulky material such as wood chips. Compost piles work best at temperatures between 130-150 degrees F. "

So it sounds like garbage bag sized storage of compost is nothing to worry about

Tammy,
Just having the leaves in there will work too,
just nooooooooooottttttttt as fast... but it will.

Some people fill them up and use them as insulation under their porches,
to cut down drafts.

They get 8~10~20 bags, whatever the amount of space to cover up the drafts..
I just put them in the basement so I could have
the compost ready to go, early in the spring....
I have usually dealt with frozen compost and it's hard to chip it apart... so I came up with the notion to put some in bags in the basement and I could sift it at my leisure in the winter,
*never happened* but when it was srpring, too wet to do any gardening, I could sift the compost...

And I like to sift when it's cool outside,
I work up a good sweat doing it, and when it's cooler it's easier to do...

Mary,
I am not 100% sure on the squishing
them real tight either, butttttttttt, for flat unchopped leaves, you don't want them so pressed
so tight that it can't do any decomposing....

In the forrest floors it can do that,
fall on flat on top of each other and press
down, because bugs and tree/plant roots go from
under it and utilize it from the bottom up...

When composting you want as may exposed edges as you can...to decompose at a faster rate...

If you can use a lawn mower and chop leaves and mow grass, THAT IS THE MOST IDEAL SITUATION YOU CAN HAVE.
But I wouldn't cram them in *plus if they are slightly wet, which you'd want toooo, if they are wet and packed so tight, they may just mold.

Don't think I want moldy. How about really dry leaves and I stomp on them real good. then they would be dry carbon next spring when Jimmy starts mowing the grass. Or I'll just pile them all over the garden space that I haven't dug up yet and let them have their way with that area until next spring when I decide to do something out there again lol.

I gotcha Weezie I don't know if I misunderstood - but I wasn't meaning to squash them to compost em...just to store them till ya needed them. It would be easiest for you to just pile them on the garden space you want to dig in spring - *IF* Jimmy will let them sit over winter and not rake em up.

As for leaf mold, it's not a bad thing from what I've read, but can take a long time to make...so better to use it in compost since we need it so fast

Have I mentioned? I found out that huge tree in my backyard isn't a black gum (I posted some bad pics on the mystery thread and it was mis-ID'd). It's in fact a sassafrass tree The leaves fall constantly - don't know if that's a sassafrass thing, or what, but it's great - smells great when mowed (at least I like it) and there's always dried leaves with the grass clippings Woohoo!

Cool what a deal for you. You must have compost comming out of your ears. Which considering what all you want to do with your yard is a really good thing.

Yesterday I was having trouble finding spots for mowed grass...a great problem to have! And yeah, I couldn't do all I want to do without the ability to compost...so I'm really glad too.

Tammy,
That would be good idea...
I am always hunting down sources of brown in the summer...

Yeppers that's the problem I ran into in june and july. I didn't have enough brown and the news paper even when I make it into 1 inch squares just does not want to breakdown as quickly as the leaves did. I really liked how fast they brokedown and want to be able to have that all summer long if possible. I found this year that your ratio of 3/4 brown to 1/4 green worked much faster than the half and half I had read about elsewhere so that is what I am going to try to keep in my composter at all times. Of course with a bin like I have dumping it all out and mixing it up and then shoveling it all back in is a bit of a pain but what is, is lol. I just have to remember to wear my gloves and avoid any more blisters. That monster hurt.

I Love this enthusiastic thread! You all have inspired me to start my own compost but I'm definitely a newbie. I know I'm doing this a little late in the year though so I hope that doesn't matter in the long run.

About a month ago I started off by pulling up some skimpy sod patches around my house and deck to clean it up, and to start some border-like flowerbeds around those areas. I shook much of the soil off and then threw the clumps in a pile (but there was still a bunch of dirt attached). Since then I've been reading through and trying to figure out how to do it the right way.

I've been throwing vegetable food scraps, broken eggshells, deadheaded flowers, etc, in the pile since then, and also added a bag of composted steer manure. Is that okay?

I've also stirred it up all along and kept it moist. So after reading some more here, I thought, 'LEAVES! I need LEAVES!' lol. I have a bushy area on my property and gathered up a green garbage bag full of old brown birch tree leaves from the ground and then spread my pile out and put it back together in layers. First leaves and shreaded newspaper, then the existing stuff (about four layers of each.) I watered down each layer as I went as well, and when I was done I kind of aerated it all over with a big iron stick through the top down to the bottom. Am I on the right track by any chance?

Since this is only a pile, I spread a green garbage bag over the whole thing to keep excess moisture out. (It's been raining like crazy here! )

I was also wondering about stirring it up? Now that it's in layers, won't that defeat the purpose of layering it? Also, how often should I stir it up?

I'd really appreciate any suggestions anybody here might have. A bunch of you are obviously successful at it and now I'm all excited about seeing this thing 'steam up'. lol

Thanks a lot for any info you guys can share,
~Suzy~

I'm a newbie too. I think the layering is just to make sure you have the right ratio of brown to green. I don't think you had to put the manure in it. I think that could have went directly into the soil you are preparing for your flower beds. As far as the ratio I've forgotten but hopefully longy, weezie or Mary will check in and remind us of what it is suppose to be. I'm thinking somewhere between 50 to 75% brown to 25 to 50% green but I mess up when I try to remember things. So hopefully someone will help out on that.

I think it's suppose to be stirred every 7 to 10 days or when it stops steaming. Mine is in a bin so I don't have to worry about too much water but I've never heard of anyone covering their compost heap but maybe I just missed it.

Hi SuzyQ! How exciting to see you've been inspired to start composting! Sounds to me like you've got a great start - the layering, the ingredients - all right on

One thing I wondered as I read your post was if the sod you used was treated with insecticide. You don't really want anything that's chemically treated in your compost in the future, if this may have had some in it.

As for steer manure, I don't know the amount of nitrogen in it - depending on how 'strong' it is, you may or may not be able to put it right in your garden. If it's got too much nitrogen, it can burn your plants so it's better to compost. In general, I would say, if you don't know whether or not it's too strong for the flowerbed, put it in the compost. You can't go wrong that way.

The purpose of layering as I understand it is to get the greens and browns touching so that the process (chemical reactions) can begin. You don't want to stir or turn your compost every day (too often) because you want to give it some time to work...I turn my heap twice a week when it's not too hot, once a week when it's too hot to do it more often. The first time I turn a pile though, is no sooner than 5 days after I build it. Of course I also build 3' x 3' heaps, so it depends on size too.

The purpose of turning, or mixing it, is to get the air circulating through the pile. The microbes need oxygen to work - just like a fire needs oxygen to burn, your pile needs it to cook. Of course you don't HAVE to turn it - but it will take MUCH longer to break down. It's really up to you, and how soon you need it. My compost is ready in a month. I know some people can get it done in half that time - I just don't put enough effort into it to get it done that quickly. I also have a pile that's my 'long term' pile, which I just add to, and never turn. From the size and contents, I estimate it will take 2 or 3 years to break down.

As for the ratio, like you T, I've found that 75% brown to 25% green works best. Too much brown and it dries up and doesn't cook down. Too much green and it gets slimy and stinky. You'll get a feel for it after you've done a few piles, whether or not you need to add more of one thing or another. It's kinda like riding a bike

I'm so glad you found us SuzyQ - I've been on a 'compost committee' and trying to convert everyone I know to become composters - it's addicting and it something we can all do to pitch in and help the environment - and our gardens! Keep us posted, and keep the questions coming!

Thanks for your response, Mary. I hope I'm on the right track. Fortunately there were no insecticides at all on the grass tidbits I pulled. And the steer manure I added was already composted and said it wouldn't burn plant roots on the bag. I thought I was buying the pure stuff but when I got home I saw 'composted' on the packaging so I don't know if it still has the same power but I tossed it in anyway.

If I understand correctly the manure and kitchen remnants are all greens and should be about 25% of the pile. The leftover soil I put in, leaves and paper should make up 75% of the pile. Do I have that right? I'm not sure about my percentages though. I think I need to add more leaves. It seemed like I was adding a lot from the kitchen for the last month and it really started piling up. (We cook lots of veggies. lol.) My pile is almost 3' high and definitely 3' wide and 3' deep though, so I think I'll go find more browns and stir them in.

Or maybe I should wait five days. and I'll let you know how it's going. I'm looking forward to having my own little pile of crumbly healthy black stuff for the first time ever.

SuzyQ don't sweat it! LOL Go ahead and throw in your browns if you think it needs more, and mix (or turn) them in. That's one thing about compost - you don't have to do it perfectly - mother nature is pretty forgiving actually

The composted manure you got would have been ok in the garden, but is more than okay in the compost heap. Since it was already composted, I don't think it would really count as a green or a brown but adding compost will help your pile get started, since it already has the microbes that worked to break it down. That make sense?
If you can get your hands on chicken manure, that's very high in nitrogen, and helps cook it hot and fast.

You're very welcome for the help - I'm just giving back what I was given when I had those very same questions. Longy & Weezie were my compost mentors - it feels great to be able to help others learn about it now...and one of these days you'll be a mentor too!

Have fun!

No one has mentioned this so maybe I did something wrong. Do your composts have little flies swarming over it inside your bin? I do...perhaps I put too many holes for air circulation?

Howdy! Sounds like you're doing just fine. I think what you're describing are gnats - don't sweat it, it's all good!

I dont have enough brown to do a bin and no grass clippings as they are mulched. We will have leaves this fall. I am wainting to do some composting but worried about enough stuff to even bother with. I do have access to straw and hay alot. Would these items work as my brown? Then I could just throw in some leaves and kitchen items and work it with the weeds and such as they come? I do have minimum grass clippings available. I am thinking about getting one of those porch compost bins. But just dont know if I will have enough to make it worth while. I may do a trash can first and see how fast it fills up but it seems like it will be a pain in the a** to turn. Where we live we have to be very careful of things in the yard. Even a trash can misplaced can be an issue. It id a pain but its nice in a way because I know my neighbors wont get away with old tires full of stagnet water and mesquitos. But all the same its a pain in the rump. If I had an outside compost pile like Mary's the POA would threaten to sue my bum if it wasnt cleaned up in 4 weeks.

You get bugs when the bin isn't hot. When it heats up they leave.

Karrie I would say don't even try sweetie. In a community where the yards are closely monitored it just is not possible. Someone is going to see you turning it or using it and then they are going to try and pretty soon there is going to be a war lol. I mean I got to much green in mine and it turned to sludge and then smelly pellet like things and I'm still trying to break it up and get it to finish composting. And I'm doing all this while hoping the county doesn't come by and raise you know what. Cause they do if they see anything going on. Fortunately the county is growing and I don't thing the county government has been able to keep up with it yet. So unless someone complains I should be all right.

That's awful that people can complain about something like this. I understand not wanting to see rusty old cars and tires all over the place, but a compost shouldn't be a problem. I would think it's people who take pride in their yards that build them in the first place. I guess I'm pretty lucky I don't have that problem. I never even considered it before.

I never did get to mix in more browns since my last post, Mary. It started pouring here (and I mean POURING!) over a week ago. I was just too busy gathering up the animals two-by-two while my husband worked on the ark.

~Suzy~