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#346123 Jul 14th, 2011 at 01:33 PM
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I'm thinking more and more about next year's veggie garden. My goal is to do a completely vertical garden because I don't want to lose alot of yard space because of our kids and the dogs (two very large Alaskan Malamutes who need to be able to run and who are VERY good and digging stuff up).

My first thought is how to get rid of the lawn that will need to be turned into the base of the garden. I have access to composted manure, but I don't know for sure what I'll be planting, so I don't know what kind of nutrient levels I'll need....or not need. I first want to kill the grass that is there, so I was planning on laying cardboard and newspapers down, wetting them, and then laying mulched grass clippings on top of the wet newspapers to kill it all. I figure by the time fall and winter pass, it will all compost into good soil. Does this sound like it is something that is going to work or do I need to rethink my plan here??


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This should work very well. I would add manure to that to balance the green of the clippings. And then something to keep the dogs from digging it all up for you. How vertical are you going to go, Jenn?


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I'm kind of hoping to do something similar to you, Jenn. We have FOUR dogs, but they're gettin' old and don't need as much room. But they dig up every blessed thing I try to plant back there. We have a lot of grass, well mostly weeds, and I've been researching like crazy. I don't want to Roundup anything.

I found a local ranch that will deliver horse manure for a very small fee. I just need to figure out how to block off maybe half the yard to get going on the process. Good luck with yours. Let us know how it goes so I can learn from you!

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We have a 6 foot tall plank and wire fence that runs the perimeter of our yard. I'm planning on doing lettuce, various peppers, and some other things in deeper flower boxes that will be put on the fence at different heights (like one column of boxes that are lettuces that would have 4 or 5 boxes depending on what heights the lettuces grow). I want to do zucchini, cucumbers, and squash at the posts. I figure each post can have something different...planted into the ground with a pole going on a diagonal from about 3-4 feet out from the fence to the top of the posts for them to grow on. I think I'd put strings hanging from the poles for some additional area for those to grow up. I'm also thinking that I can do a few tomato plants from some of the posts that wouldn't be used for the other vining vegetables. I think I'd like to get some really heavy duty pot hangers for those posts and hang 5 gallon buckets from them. I'd be able to grow 2 plants from each bucket...one upside down and the other out of the top.

That's as far as I've gotten on thinking of the garden and how things would be laid out.


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Originally Posted by cagardengirl
I'm kind of hoping to do something similar to you, Jenn. We have FOUR dogs, but they're gettin' old and don't need as much room. But they dig up every blessed thing I try to plant back there. We have a lot of grass, well mostly weeds, and I've been researching like crazy. I don't want to Roundup anything.

I found a local ranch that will deliver horse manure for a very small fee. I just need to figure out how to block off maybe half the yard to get going on the process. Good luck with yours. Let us know how it goes so I can learn from you!



I learned two years ago to use the manure you get quickly. I had gotten fresh manure and it didn't get spread out quickly at all...my kids were 1 and 2 then so I didn't have alot of time to get things done. Anyways, we found out that rats are drawn by manure. I'm trying to do some research to see if composted manure does the same thing. I don't want to bring rats here again. We have a stacked stone foundation and they actually dug into the foundation and got into our basement. They never found their way up to our main floor (we have no steps from the first floor to the basement...just a ladder), but we had to put poison out and had stinky dead rats to find once they died. uhuhh


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Originally Posted by hisgal2
we found out that rats are drawn by manure. I'm trying to do some research to see if composted manure does the same thing. I don't want to bring rats here again. We have a stacked stone foundation and they actually dug into the foundation and got into our basement. They never found their way up to our main floor (we have no steps from the first floor to the basement...just a ladder), but we had to put poison out and had stinky dead rats to find once they died. uhuhh


Eww! Good to know. We had a rat problem here when a rat decided to nest in the drawer under my old stove. One of the dogs kept sniffing there until we finally got smart and looked in there. It had already chewed through some of the stove wiring. We also had some in the attic. Just horrible!! So we definitely don't want to invite them back.

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I live smack against National Forest land and there are rats as well as other critters. I walk my 'trap lines' every morning to see if I've captured anything. It is beastly when they die where you cannot get to them, like in your walls. And why I am not fond of poisons around. But I have used them when I felt surrounded.
Your vert gardening sounds very workable, Jenn. I would love to see pictures.
I bought a mess of 5 gal buckets and put up hooks on my eaves to do something similar this year. I even bought pulleys so I could raise and lower them for my convenience. And put up a watering system. But I did not get it all together this year. Hopefully next year.


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We still have some rats around and we decided to do the poison so we could kill the last of them quickly. I was in Louisiana last week and while I was gone, Stephen said he found one dead on the landing in the basement, one outside in a hole under a slate slab in a hole, and one somewhere else. It was pretty warm up here and when I got home I could smell them even tho he had already found them and gotten rid of them. The house smells MUCH better now tho. grin

Stephen just wants to do 4 or 5 vegetables next year, but I'd like to do more. Our main problem is that we'll be up in Alaska for at least 12 days....22 if things work out with vacation weeks....and I don't want to end up losing alot of veggies if we are gone when they become ripe. We won't know when we are going until November/December when Stephen does his vacation picks.

Anyways, I'm going to take pictures of the fence line and sketch where things will be and stuff in the next few weeks. I'll get those pictures uploaded when I get them done.

I just got a message from a friend who has old barn plank that she wants to get rid of. I'm going to take the plank and use it to make the flower boxes. Free=awesome!! I'm thinking that with wooden boxes, I'll be able to just screw them into the fence planks instead of having to buy brackets for plastic ones.


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Awesome! I love free stuff.


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Finally back to my vertical garden! Now that January is here, I'm totally thinking about gardening again. I picked up some old fence plank that I planned on making into boxes. I'm not sure the wood will hold the weight of the soil if it is made into boxes, so I'm thinking up other ways to use the plank for my garden.

A friend of mine just replaced the rain gutters on her house. I went to look at the stuff they look off of the house. Alot of it was bent up and un-usable, but Stephen managed to get 5 good sized pieces cut off. I'll be using them for my garden. I'll be planting lettuces and probably green onions in them. I'm not sure what else can be planted into something soo shallow, but I'm looking around and trying to do research.

Stephen doesn't want me to screw the gutters directly to the fence, so I started sketching out plans for a kind of hanger for the fence that I can attach the gutters to instead. I think that will actually work out better anyways since I'll be able to store the gutters in the garage during the winter then.

That's the update for now on my vertical garden.


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This sounds good. I would have issues keeping these things watered enough here. Living in desert has drawbacks. I want to see pictures someday.


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I'll probably start working on stuff come March. I'll take pictures then.

I did a Google search for vertical gardens and came across something from Australia. They were using some sort of material that looked like foam board insulation. They were using it in vertical gardens and it held something like 4 times it's area in water. It was pretty amazing. I've heard about people taking disposable diapers and ripping them open and then mixing the gel stuff into the soil to help retain moisture, but I'll be composting, so I don't think that'll work.

There is alot more research to be done. Do you know of other veggies that have a shallow root system that may work with the rain gutters?

I'm working on sketching out what I'd like to do for this year. Nothing too huge, but something that will keep my grocery bills down.


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Radishes and those baby round carrots would work in those rain gutters, leaf lettuce, herbs as well.

You can buy that gel stuff at the dollar stores here.


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Tina, you can't grow lettuce?

Jen, that sounds like a good idea with the guttering. Can't wait to see pictures.

Wonder if carrots grown in them would take more than one season.



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Garlic would also work.


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I'm definitely looking at lettuces. The Philadelphia flower Show had a few displays with vertical gardening being the focus...they were soo cool!! They had an entire wall of green and red leaf lettuce. It was at least 8 feet tall and about 25-30 feet long....all lettuce. They were showing how much lettuce could be grown from just two packets of lettuce seeds that cost $3 each.

I want to stick with heirloom seeds so that I can harvest the seeds and then plant them next year instead of having to buy more seeds each year (that's my goal anyways). I am planning on doing the Thumbalina carrots as well as these neat little "tennis ball" heads of lettuce . I'm also going to be doing some sort of beans that will grow up the fence. We like wax beans...I need to do some research to see if they will grow up the fence or if I just need to tie them to the fence to keep them off the ground...or do they grow in bushes?? I'm also looking at pole beans and some sort of bean that I can dry and then store for making chili or rice dishes.

I'm also interested in herbs, tho I don't cook with them much so that is going to be a learning process for me as well.


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Jenn, that lettuce wall is so cool! We had some bush beans last fall, though we had a cold night and they were gone. But the beans were SO yummy.
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Isn't it, tho!? I kept going back to it! There was another really great gardening display that I failed to take pictures of. I'm kicking myself for that now. I'm going to have to do a google search for other people's photos from this year's show to see if I can find that display. There were alot of cold frame examples using old windows....which I have done with an old 8 pane door. It didn't survive last winter tho. :( We had high winds one night and it knocked the lid down and then had heavy, wet snow next and after about 8 inches, the panes totally fell in on the cold frame.

I'm going to have to look at how large bush beans get. My overall goal is to not take much, it any, of our back yard space with the garden. Between my kids and our dogs, I don't think that would go over well.


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My bush beans grow about a foot and a half high and wide. A yellow wax variety..


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Originally Posted by Sunflowers
My bush beans grow about a foot and a half high and wide. A yellow wax variety..
That's about how large mine were. For me, it was well worth growing, because beans at the store are generally $3/pound. I can't plant in my backyard though, because my dogs would definitely eat the plants or dig them up. ~Beth~

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I wont grocery shop in california.


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Originally Posted by dodge
I wont grocery shop in california.
It is ridiculously expensive, and so much of what we eat is grown very locally. Even farmer's markets, which are rumored to be less expensive, are often more expensive, at least in my area. I just don't get it. I do the best I can to shop seasonally, watch for sales, etc. but I still spend a big chunk of my food budget on veggies and fruit alone. I guess I should be grateful that we do have access to a great variety and I can grow some of what we eat. I know there are plenty of kids who've never seen a fresh veggie and couldn't identify one if they tried, which is unfortunate. ~Beth~

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bETH

GOOD REASON TO GROW YOUR OWN. LOTS OF US GROW TOMATOES IN A flower POT


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Originally Posted by dodge
bETH

GOOD REASON TO GROW YOUR OWN. LOTS OF US GROW TOMATOES IN A FLOWER POT


That's for sure! Can't wait for this year's tomatoes. Last year's were good, but the rains here kind of ruined a lot of my tomatoes. Hope this year is a better year.

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quote] It is ridiculously expensive, and so much of what we eat is grown very locally. Even farmer's markets, which are rumored to be less expensive, are often more expensive, at least in my area. I just don't get it. I do the best I can to shop seasonally, watch for sales, etc. but I still spend a big chunk of my food budget on veggies and fruit alone. I guess I should be grateful that we do have access to a great variety and I can grow some of what we eat. I know there are plenty of kids who've never seen a fresh veggie and couldn't identify one if they tried, which is unfortunate. ~Beth~ [/quote] I know "Bountiful Baskets" aren't everywhere, but we have it here in WY and you might check it out on-line, bountifulbaskets.org. It is a coop situation. You order on-line every other Monday and get your produce on Saturdays. You have to order a basket (50% vegies 50% fruit) for $15.00 and then there are always add-ons. This past Sat we got: 1 cantelope, 1 pineapple, 6 bananas, 5-6 apples, 3 mangos, 6 kiwis, 1 butternut lettuce, a bag of brussel sprouts (about 1 1/2 lbs), 2 bell peppers, 4 green chilies, a bunch of broccoli and 3 of those cucumbers that are wrapped in seran wrap. I think that was it. They also offered certified organic for $10 more. It is never quite the same, but i can't beat the prices and quality. Here in WY our produce expically in the winter is very poor.


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Originally Posted by fabrictodyefor
You have to order a basket (50% vegies 50% fruit) for $15.00 and then there are always add-ons. This past Sat we got: 1 cantelope, 1 pineapple, 6 bananas, 5-6 apples, 3 mangos, 6 kiwis, 1 butternut lettuce, a bag of brussel sprouts (about 1 1/2 lbs), 2 bell peppers, 4 green chilies, a bunch of broccoli and 3 of those cucumbers that are wrapped in seran wrap. I think that was it. They also offered certified organic for $10 more. It is never quite the same, but i can't beat the prices and quality. Here in WY our produce expically in the winter is very poor.
Wow, Bobbie! That sounds like a pretty good deal. I looked into it a while back, but only found co-ops that were much more expensive than what you are paying. I should look into it again. Maybe there is more competition to keep prices down. I know the weather and gas affects prices, too. It's nice to have items delivered to your front door, isn't it? I love the challenge of finding new recipes to use up an abundance of a veggie if I get a good deal on something or someone gives me something unusual.idea
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[/quote]. It's nice to have items delivered to your front door, isn't it? [/quote]

they don't come to our door. how it works is you have to have someone in your howmtown who is the responsible party, we have 2 ladies who share the burden. A truck comes to our mulitpurpose building and we usually have enough volunteers, but you need volunteers to help unload the truck, and then we separate the cases of fruits and vegies into the baskets. As a volunteer we usually get one or two extra items. I almost always help, it only takes an hour or so. But I am just so glad to have the fresh vegies come to our little town!


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ps, we did get Jeruselem artichokes once, and I had never had one...I'm certainly a convert to new fruits and vegies! flwr


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Wow..that was a great deal. I just paid $7 for a small bag of apples.


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Originally Posted by Sunflowers
Wow..that was a great deal. I just paid $7 for a small bag of apples.


yep and sometimes the baskets have even more in them!


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Bobbie, it sounds like you live in nice little small town. I'd be happy to help distribute food if I could get such a deal around here. I am going to look into it today. ~Beth~

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Originally Posted by cagardengirl
Originally Posted by Sunflowers
My bush beans grow about a foot and a half high and wide. A yellow wax variety..
That's about how large mine were. For me, it was well worth growing, because beans at the store are generally $3/pound. I can't plant in my backyard though, because my dogs would definitely eat the plants or dig them up. ~Beth~


I've been looking online for plans for bunkbeds and loft beds for my kids. I came across a fairly simple loft plan and saw that someone had used the plan to make a loft in their backyard. Seems their dogs kept digging up her gardens, so she made a loft and put the plants up there! You wouldn't have to make a really tall one, just tall enough to keep the dogs out of your beans and such.


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Originally Posted by Sunflowers
Wow..that was a great deal. I just paid $7 for a small bag of apples.


I often pick apples from a local orchard and store them in the basement or garage. I can usually get half way through winter with them. We also pick wild blueberries in the summer. We drive up the mountain about 20 minutes or so and pick, pick, pick, pick. I wash and freeze them and also make jam and freezer jelly. I do the same with strawberries (tho I don't care for them) so my kids can have decent freezer jelly. This past fall, I went to a friend's orchard. She has about 50 trees...all different kinds of apples. She let us pick as much as we wanted for free. We just picked for one day, but I got 9 quarts of applesauce out of all of it. Next year we'll go a little earlier in the season and pick way more. 9 quarts of applesauce won't get us very far especially with me packing lunches for Maddie.


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Originally Posted by Tina
This sounds good. I would have issues keeping these things watered enough here. Living in desert has drawbacks. I want to see pictures someday.


Tina, I've been thinking about this. I was doing some research on Saturday night and came across a site that showed them doing a vertical garden and they actually showed how to do some irritating (right word???) using a small fountain pump and some plastic tubing. It might work for your climate.


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I told Hubs that the kids and I would be picking out our seeds while he was at work today. I've decided to get heirloom seeds so that I can collect seeds from the plants and use those for next year's garden to try to save some money. There was an heirloom seed company at the Philadelphia flower Show (well, there were a few there, but I liked this one the best). I grabbed their card while I was there and looked them up weeks ago.

Here is what is on my list:
Amish Paste tomato (we don't eat tomatoes, but I can make sauce out of these)
Detroit Dark Red beets
Thumelina carrots
Henderson's Dwarf lima beans
Purple podded pole beans (thought the kids would enjoy these)
Straight Eight cucumbers
Boston Pickling cucumers
Salad Bowl lettuce
Red Salad Bowl lettuce


I'm contemplating adding another variety of carrots so that we have some longer carrots, but I haven't decided yet. The Thumbelina's don't need to be peeled and get about 2-3 inches which is usually what I end up cutting carrots into anyways.

I've talked myself out of a couple dwarf blueberry bushes. We usually pick wild blueberries up in the next county, so I don't really have a need for the bushes. I'm still trying to talk myself out of strawberry plants....I think I may be a little late for those anyways since we had warm spring weather soo early. I've heard that they are actually picking strawberries in Texas already!!


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They are certainly picking strawberries here too. Next year the kids may enjoy a few strawberry plants in a strawberry tree (stacked pots). And they could just get a few fresh berries to enjoy.
Sounds like a good list. Peas straight from the pod are some of Mother Nature's best candy. Even kids (and older folks) that don't usually like peas much tend to like these. I know you have some allergy things in your family. I'm not sure if you are looking for suggestions.


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Nobody in our house other than myself will eat peas. It's pretty much a lost cause with that particular vegetable. rolz My goal is to keep everything either contained in the cold frames that we'll be building or keep them vertical...thus the pole beans. I need to do some more research, but I'm planning on doing 2 tomato plants in a 5 gallon bucket. One growing out the top and one growing out the bottom with the buckets hanging off of the fence posts.

I can't do citrus or sweetener and Luke can't do lactose. Other than that, we are good to go for veggies and fruit.

Really, the main thing I'm trying to avoid with the garden this year is planting too much. I want decent sized harvests, but I don't want to plant soo much that I'm going to be overwhelmed by the amount of work and such especially since it's been a few years since I've really done alot of gardening.


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You can also buy dwarf tomato plants that grow the tiny cherry tomatoes. They only need a gallon bucket or large flower pot. They taste amazing. I plant the 'tiny tim' variety.

You can also buy bush cucumber seeds...they grow in pots also. I've also planted green peppers in gallon pots. Nante carrots are also a sweet and middle sized variety...leaf lettuce and radish can be grown in shallow dishes also.

I've grown lots in pots...and those pots came from the dollar store and restaurants. Restaurants get their supplies in one gallon buckets and would be happy for you to take them if you ask.


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Wouldn't I have to have ALOT of cherry tomatoes to make sauce tho? We don't eat tomatoes other than that. :)

Good to know about the restaurants! I was trying to figure out how to get those cheap.


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Northern Star
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Northern Star
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Sorry, I was thinking 'salad tomatoes'.


~~Tam~ You can bury all your troubles by digging in the dirt.
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