A Gardeners Forum Forums General Discussion Landscape trials and triumphs Water Gardens Continuing Lynne's pond experience ~spring/summer 2009

Okay Lynne spring has Sprung ,,
Time for an update on what's happening with your Pond,
the plants around it,,
plants in it,
what cha' going to get for it,,
have done to it,,
will do to it,,
Enquiringly minds want to know

yep---we are just sittin' here waiting to find out........

Well thanks for your interest Diane and Carol.

Not much is going on at the pond yet this year. Don cleaned it out as much as he could last Sunday, and started up the waterfall, filter, and skimmer. It's still pretty murky looking and I need to get some of the pond "stuff" this week to help clear it up.

I'm also picking up some free fathead minnows as part of the mosquito control program in our county. I do hope they live longer than the batch last year - remember we found them floating dead with their stomachs missing?!? That was awful and strange!

A few of the plants have come back - the sedums, the grasses are starting to green up in this rain we've been having yesterday and today, and the pink coneflowers. I do not see any signs of life in any of the 8 gaillardias I planted around the pond. I'm mostly disappointed in my oranges and lemons, though I did buy 5 new ones last week at Home Depot. The very small nursery where I bought them last year is not selling them this year they told me.

The biggest surprise for me is that it looks like the 2 water lilies made it through the freeze in the pond. They didn't grow well last year when the water got yucky, and I never did get any flowers, but they both have very small leaves right now, so I've got my fingers crossed. It's a good thing there are signs of life in them because WalMart did not sell them again this year either. Seems like a lot of places are cutting down their selections of merchandise in this economy.

That's all for now - I'll update when anything of interest happens there.

Lynne~ I would like to know the name of the ornamental grasses you have at the top of the hill by your waterfall. They are lovely!


Merme

Wow is all I can say! I been following up on all of your threads! I am going to bed as it is 2 am and 5 am will come early!

I wanna see pictures. :)

look in this forum under "Continuing Lynne's pond experience!"

therre are links

Finally an update!!!
(and it's pretty long - sorry! )

I was waiting for my husband to upload some pictures he took yesterday, as my camera finally bit the dust totally, but he's having some problems doing that, so I will post now and then share the pictures when he gets it all figured out.

Don had put some chemicals in the pond on Sunday night after I bought it at Petsmart - he even put in a little extra because afterall... the only things that might be alive in there are the fathead minnows that I got free once again this year, but we haven't seen any since we put them in - except for 2 dead ones, but there must have been about 50. I am surprised because they are supposed to eat mosquito larvae so I would have thought they'd live on the surface of the water you know? But we haven't seen any swimming around, nor in the skimmer so I guess they are living on the bottom of the pond?

Fast forward to the end of the day yesterday - Don had to keep skimming the gunk out of the skimmer all day that the chemicals killed - the algae foams up when the stuff works, and he skims it out. At one point I said to him that I hope my 2 pathetic water lilies that came back don't die from all the chemicals. I had been very surprised to see them growing early spring because they were on the surface of the pond that froze over thickly during winter. They still only have small red leaves, but hopefully they will fill out when we warm up for good for the summer - today is very windy and chilly at 60 - yesterday was 82!

He looked over at where the water lilies were and he said "WHAT'S THAT?!?"
I said... "WHAT'S WHAT???"
He said - "OVER THERE!!! - between the 2 water lilies?!?"
I turned around and saw it too - we both went running over to that side of the pond to find a 5 inch or so bright orange koi!!!

Now remember - I had lost 3-4 batches of 4-6 koi last summer - just could NOT keep any of them alive no matter how hard we tried!!! The last batch of 4 babies were put in last fall, and I never saw them again after I let them into the pond! So of course I assumed they were all dead. I did fish out 1 dead one when taking all the leaves out about a month or so ago.

This one was hanging out near the top and not moving from that spot - so we are worried about the chemicals - did they bring him up to the top to gasp for air??? He just stayed in that spot - submerged himself whenever we got close enough to see how he was doing, but went right back as soon as we moved away.

I went back to my gardening, worried yet extremely excited. A few minutes later I went to check on him, and saw koi #2!!! YEA!!! He hung out with the first one, as if to make sure he was ok. I went back to finish up the gardening for the day. As I was cleaning up my gardening tools, I took another look at the pond, and on the other side was... YEP... #3!!!!! We could not believe that 3 out of the 4 had survived the winter! And had grown to about 5 inches - WOW!

The reason we were so surprised is that the pond is not as deep as it should be - it started out to be deep enough but when Don layed down some sand under the liner it got much more shallow - only about 2 1/2 feet deep, and everything we have read says it needs to be at least 3 feet deep for fish to survive the pond freezing. PLUS we had never made an air hole in the ice over the winter. So it really is a miracle that the 3 of them made it! And that is why it's so very important to me that they stay healthy!

I am going to get some barley pads - I've read that they help with algae issues, and I also read that koi clay helps too - to maintain clearer water but also helps the health of the fish, and is supposed to make the colors of the fish brighter.

Oh, and this time I will NOT name the fish - that was a death sentence for sure! I had read about that on pond forums, but named the first 2 batches anyway. Not going to make that mistake again!

What WONDERFUL news, Lynne! I'm so happy to hear that three of your koi survived!!

The other day I watched a TV show about building a big pond and I thought of you. They used a specialty black net over the top to protect the birds from predators. Interestingly enough, it didn't block the view of the pond or under the water... just kept enemies out. Have you seen this stuff? It floats on top of the water.


Merme

Thanks Merme! I have seen screens for ponds, but right now my objective is to keep these fish alive in water that is healthy enough for them - we really need to get some shade over the pond, but most of the things I've seen are pretty expensive - my latest thought is one of those summer umbrellas that is on a stand that leans out over the tables - know what I mean? That would be great by the pond, but the lowest price I've seen on the size we would need is $300 - not going to happen for us right now!!!

Lynne--that is a wonderful thing to have happened to you !!! for 3 of the 4 Koi to have survived. I hope that yo uand Don can owrk out something that will work for shade

there is a tree----a "nuttall oak--it grows like 5-7 feet a year--perhaps something like tht might be able to help you???

recommended zones for the Nuttall oak:

zones 5-6-7-8

\I have the phone number of where you can order it from but I apparently didnt copy the web site down---but I did read all about this fast growing tree online, so I think you could research it and see if it is something that would work for you...

Thanks for that information, Carol, but I really do not want to plant a tree near the pond because as it is, it gets way too many leaves in it in the fall and there aren't any trees for several yards away!!! But they find their way into it anyway!

Ok, I'm a idjit girl! That word should be FISH! "to protect the fish from predators".

That's what happens when I'm posting when I'm exhausted. Sorry!



Yes, I can see your difficulty with providing adequate shade. Every pond I've ever seen in person did not have large trees nearby, probably because of the leaf issue you mentioned.

I agree.... $300 is way too pricey!

Also, I don't think you saw my earlier question about what is the name of that lovely ornamental grass you have at the top of the waterfall?


Merme *glad you don't have birds living under the water of your pond needing protection from predators*

Me TOO How awesome was that to discover! I wonder what they ate tho,, this whole winter to survive and with out a hole made too! ,, frickin awesome Lynne!




No that would be strange

Thanks Carol, Merme and Diane!

Diane - the fish don't eat during the frozen winter - they go into hibernation - they start to eat once again when the water reaches a certain temperature - can't remember what that is right now though. But the shocker is that they did survive without an airhole, and in water that wasn't supposed to be deep enough.

Sorry Merme - I can't remember the name of the grass right now. I have the tag in the garage and will look next time I am there.

Don sent me his pictures tonight and I've edited them so they are ready to post here.

An overview of the pond from the deck.


The waterfall with Buddha protecting it from the top.


The second koi I found alive, hiding by the rush in the pond.


more next post...

This was the first koi we were suprised to see yesterday.
And this is how he spends most of his time - hanging out next to this pipe.






They definitely grew overwinter which is very exciting - now the mission is to keep them alive this summer!!! I am looking into some barley straw to help filter out the bad bacteria and algae, and also something called koi clay. Hopefully one or both of those will help regulate the water, and keep the fish healthy, as they are supposed to do.

that is so cool, I'd love to have a pond but not happen'n here
so I will enjoy yours. Its possible the algae made enough oxygen
for them to survive under the ice.

Great photos, Lynne! They were worth the wait.

When the water temperature drops to 52 degrees, most pond owners stop feeding the fish as their digestion begins going dormant at that point. By 50 degrees, respiration and metabolism also slows.

A handy rule of thumb for knowing the difference between surface temperature and at-depth temperature is to subtract 1 degree for each foot of depth in the pond.

Dormancy is an important part of the life cycle to keep the fish's color intact. And for female koi over 3 years of age, it helps them reabsorb eggs they haven't used in spawning. Without that reabsorption time, season by season those unused eggs can create health problems to the point that the fish could need surgery to remove the petrified eggs.

Another helpful thing about dormancy is that the colder water temps kill off parasites.


Merme

Thanks for that information, Merme. I do have a pool thermometer that I submerge in the pond in the fall so that will work for me, assuming the fish live that long. They are now on day 3 that we have seen them, but today they are a bit more into the water, which I think is a good thing - no longer sorta floating at the top. Don did change out some water the past 2 days, so it shouldn't have as many chemicals in it now too.

And I am waiting for the petshop to call me back with a price on the barley straw planters that I'd like to get. They are pretty cool - they do the work of barley to help filter out the water, but they also have an impression in the center to put soil and a plant in! It either floats or is tethered to the side - in our case because the waterfall is pretty powerful I will need to tether them if I can find some for a good price.

Gee Merme, that is a lot of good information, sounds like you had fish at one time--did you??

Lynne--I love the pictures that Don took--your Koi are even larger than I invisioned them--I am so happy for you.

Also, once again the pond is one lovely, restful looking area. I wish you luck with finding the barley planters at a good price

Wow, this has been a wonderful story about your pond! So happy the fish lived! I've enjoyed all the information I have learned here too!

Your pond is really pretty, and I wish I was sitting in that chair, listening to your waterfall!!

Wow Lynne I really hope you can find those barley planters affordably.

Knowing the Herculean task you two have been engaged in creating this pond, it makes it all the more lovely to see how well it is coming along.

What a nice work of art it is.


Merme

Thanks so much Carol and Shirley!

OK - so yesterday morning I pulled a "Cindy"! I was anxious to see if the fish were still alive, so I walked over to the side of the pond where that one had been hanging out the entire previous afternoon. I had to walk between the adirondack chair and the foot rest. Now mind you, this set is a real piece of garbage. It looked really nice, but... when Don put it together last year, we saw that many of the pieces of wood had been patched when it was manufactured, and the paint starting chipping off almost immediately. I couldn't return it because I had actually bought it the year before.

So I tripped on something - a rock? - and fell between the 2 pieces of furniture. Afraid I was going to fall into the pond , I braced myself on the footrest piece, but IT FELL APART RIGHT UNDER MY HAND! That caused me to fall more, and this time really almost fall into the pond! I grabbed onto the chair and held my breath that it, too, wouldn't fall apart! Lost my shoes in the process! Thankfully the chair held, and I was able to upright myself! PHEW! Of course I woke up with a horrendous headache yesterday, so that was just what I needed - NOT!

The foot rest is toast - what a piece of junk that set was!
Thankfully both the fish and I are ok today.
That is... if you don't count the can of mandarin oranges that fell on my cheekbone in the grocerystore today, when I reached up to the top shelf to get one down!!! I thought I'd get a good shiner out of that - thankfully that didn't happen! PHEW again! Enough Cindyisms already don't ya think?!?

OH my goodness, Lynne---yes I would say that is enough Cindyisms---for one day anyway !!!!!

are you still ok today--or has, say, soreness set in?????

OMG! That is so funny (I'm sorry!) and sounds just like a Cindy post!!!

I take it things don't look the same as in the picture, now?
That is just too funny! Uh, belatedly, I hope you didn't hurt yourself falling there. (I'm sorry, I'm still laughing!!! )

That was bad about the can falling on your face! I have a fear of falling objects!! I have broken both big toes, at two different times, and anytime something falls the first thing I think of is...'what if it hits my toe?!!!

But the picture your story conjured up in my head still has me laughing so hard the tears are running!!!

I deserve for you to come back at me with this... ...I'm sure!!

Amen to that!!!!!

I read it again and started laughing till tears came again!!!!

My problem is that I see things in cartoon form in my head, which can make the simplist things hysterically funny!!!!!

YEA!!! I finally earned some points!!!

yeaaaaaaaaaa Lynne----

.............You have points!!!!

That's all I got

Lynne

Today's update...

One of the fish had been popping up to the top of the water and spinning like a dervish numerous times 2 days ago. That was not good to see. Unfortunately he was found dead in the skimmer yesterday. Poor thing - he was such a nice size too. We haven't seen the other 2 for several days now - which is probably a good thing since they are not on the surface trying to breath.

I had a "WOW" moment today. Remember that piece of garbage 3 piece adirondack chair set that I wrote about in my last post? The one where the ottoman collapsed under me??? Well today I was in Christmas Tree Shops and I had to speak with the manager about something else. While standing there I saw some itty bitty plant pots in tiny adirondack chairs in a shopping cart for clearance. So I said to the manager - that reminds me - I bought the 3 piece set 2 years ago and it was a piece of garbage!!! The wood was all pieced, and the paint started peeling off as soon as we put it together." I also told him the ottoman fell apart and is in the garbage.

He told me to bring it back!!! What??? Yep - he said bring it back!
I told him we didn't have the ottoman anymore and I bought it 2 summers ago. I'm sure I have the receipt still in my envelope from that year. He said he didn't care - he would give me a store credit because he'd rather keep me as a happy customer than lose me! WOW!!!

So Don will disassemble what's left of it and put it in a box for me to take back. And then I will have $50 to spend in that store! NO PROBLEM!

WOW!!! THAT is a good guy----i f I were close enough he would have MY business---stores like that are hard to come by!! lucky you!!!!

It's good to establish a good repore' with a store, it's beneficial for both you and the store,, however that is an exceptional benefit being able to bring back something that is two years old.
I remember you mentioning after the first hard rain the paint had begun to peel off and you had complained about it., Wondering even then if it was such a good bargain after all,, welllllllll I guess it was,, now you've got 50 More $ to spend. That says a lot about that store,, I wonder tho is that policy with just that store, or all those stores, ,,,or he just happened to be in a generous mood,, either way it goes you made out good.

ohhhhhhhhhhhh I forgot!!!
I bought some dwarf papyrus at a nursery yesterday that does NOT sell pond plants. They had one small tray of them - I got 2 and potted them up together in the pond on the shelf. It's such a cute plant.

I read that it can grow a lot in width - I am hoping for that!

Can't take a picture until I get a new camera - hopefully soon!

I think you may have missed my question above,, DO all Christmas tree Shops have that policy??

oooops - didn't see that - I don't know if they do , as this was my first experience with it. They do have a pretty liberal return policy though - no limit on when someone can return something - but that is for items with a receipt and mostly in new packaging. Since this item is definitely broken and missing a large part now, and is 2 years old, that was above and beyond in my opinion.

By the way, Charles is filling in all the lost leaves, and growing well in the pond garden once again.

Here's a funny story!

You know how I really dislike those #@$! woodchucks who eat all my perennials and now annuals each year and make new families every year at this time?!?

Soooooo... the other day I bought some bales of barley straw to put in the pond. It is supposed to help prevent the growth of algae and help clarify the water. They come in clear mesh bags, but you are supposed to pull the barley in half, so as to losen the barley a bit for better decompostion. That is what helps clear the pond - the chemicals released when it does that. I bought some white mesh bags to put the other halves into, and divided them up and tethered the bags into the pond so that they float near the waterfall. Movement of water plus sun also helps the decomposition.

Well... Everytime I look out at the pond and see the brown batches in the clear bags, I think there is a dead woodchuck floating there! Even though my brain KNOWS that is not what it is, I still think that everytime I see them.

Wishful thinking?!?

Coool!

I found an old, partly broken camera in my desk drawer and decided to give it a try. It worked ok for these pictures so I am happy to share pictures of my new dwarf papyrus. I just think it's so cute!



A bit more of a top view