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Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees #270549
Mar 24th, 2009 at 09:12 AM
Mar 24th, 2009 at 09:12 AM
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Iowa USA
Miss_Connie Offline OP
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Hi there!
I am trying to figure out what plants, if any, will grow beneath and around our 3 rows of pine trees. I'm trying to find an alternative to the goats and sheep that my husband keeps telling me we're going to turn loose on that part of our yard to keep the mowing costs down (it's about 500 feet long by 40 feet wide there). I really don't want goats and sheep grazing in my yard egad

Is there a creeping plant that will grow in a place like that? Maybe creeping sedum or something along those lines that we wouldn't have to mow. Even small bushes would be excellent as they would help as a wind break. These pines don't have branches that come all the way to the ground like our spruce trees, and the lower branches get trimmed off as they lose their needles, so there is height beneath them. Between the rows is very shady when the sun isn't directly overhead.

I've heard that nothing will grow under pine trees because the soil is too acidic but the grass grows tall and thick right up to the trees, so I'm hoping this isn't true. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Connie
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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Miss_Connie] #270598
Mar 24th, 2009 at 04:16 PM
Mar 24th, 2009 at 04:16 PM

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connie, if you were in the south, i'd say carolina jessamine, confederate jasmine, azaleas, and dogwoods. no mowing, there are low growing azaleas, the dogwoods are lacy and not "view blocking" and the jessamine and jasmine are vines.

now, having said all that, i'd look for a low growing rhododendron. they are azalea relatives (actually, azaleas are rhody relatives) and should be fine in the acid soil. just my thought. i do know rhodys are more cold hardy that azaleas.

welcome!

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: ] #270600
Mar 24th, 2009 at 04:31 PM
Mar 24th, 2009 at 04:31 PM
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Hello Miss Connie ,,, Welcome to the garden helper,, wavy

Hosta, coral bells,, and Brunnera's Brunnera's are heart shaped and variegated the produce blue/purple blooms,, Jack Frost Brunnera is gorgeous and would be a nice contrast against the coral bells darker leaves,,

All of the above> don't plant up against the base of the tree,, they need room to spread,, sounds like you have a large area to cover,, and it will take a few years to spread to that space,, so maybe some sedum would be fine as an in between,, a lot of sedum loves full sun so make sure the kind you get will grow well in shade too!,,


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: angelblossom] #270614
Mar 24th, 2009 at 05:32 PM
Mar 24th, 2009 at 05:32 PM
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I think some ivy would be nice--that and ajuga (did I spell that right?)_ spread nicely wil be close to the ground and will give a green look to the ground...
and immediately below the trees should be covered with needles, right??? and therefore will not need growth right up against the trees???


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: JunieGirl] #270695
Mar 25th, 2009 at 05:32 AM
Mar 25th, 2009 at 05:32 AM
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Miss_Connie Offline OP
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Thank you for these suggestions. They sound very nice for the spot. Some of the trees are bare beneath them, but 90% have grass that grows thick and tall to within inches of the trunks, which makes it quite time consuming to mow around them (there's something about this Iowa dirt, I tell ya). The yard part of our little spot here is 3.25 acres, so it is going to take some time to fill in the tree rows. If it saves me time on mowing and keeps the sheep in the pasture to graze, it will be well worth it.

I'm going to look up these plants, do some research, all that other good stuff. Keep the suggestions coming too...it's early yet ;)

Connie

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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Miss_Connie] #270771
Mar 25th, 2009 at 01:30 PM
Mar 25th, 2009 at 01:30 PM
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Vinca Minora will grow nicely I think.

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Bestofour] #270790
Mar 25th, 2009 at 05:30 PM
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I think so too but one should be sure they REALLY want it before planting it I think---not to mention I could count on one hand the number of times mine bloomed in the 25 years I had it--It was always nice & green though, that I will say...


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: JunieGirl] #270809
Mar 25th, 2009 at 07:47 PM
Mar 25th, 2009 at 07:47 PM
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vinca does best in full-sun conditions...doesn't grow/spread or bloom as much in semi-shade conditions.

what kind of grass is growing right up to the trunks?? must be some kind that loves acidity!! most things won't grow beneath pine trees due to that acidity.

things to plant close by are azaleas or rhododendron (which are in the same family) or hydrangea (if it's very shady and very moist). all like acidity, so they would do fairly well - none are fast-growing though and all are bushes.

remember, whatever you see above ground matches what is below, so, any bushes should be planted far enough away from the dripline so their roots aren't competing with the roots of the trees.

ivy would be perfect except that you'd probably never be able to get rid of it as it's very invasive and the cold weather doesn't affect it a bit! i wouldn't recommend it.


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Joclyn] #270834
Mar 26th, 2009 at 06:41 AM
Mar 26th, 2009 at 06:41 AM
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Joclyn, I have to beg to differ with you on this. The vinca minora that was here when I moved in used to be in almost full shade. Since the road work it gets more sun. I don't especially like it but in both circumstances it has grown and spreads like a weed. I am constantly pulling and digging this stuff up. I usually throw it into the field but somehow it's gotten into my compost pile and is growing quite nicely. And Carol Jean, mine blooms almost constantly but our temps are warmer than yours. The temps might be the reason for both concerns.

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Bestofour] #270918
Mar 26th, 2009 at 08:04 PM
Mar 26th, 2009 at 08:04 PM
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the temperature is definitely a factor in how well the vinca grows in your area!! in the warmer zones - 7, 8, 9 - vinca is not something that should be planted anywhere that it has free-range - i'd only put it in containers that far south for just the reasons you talk about, sheri!

i'm in zone 6b and a lot of people have it around here. when it's planted in shady areas, it doesn't grow as quickly and in sunny spots it grows/spreads very nicely. yet, it still doesn't seem *too* invasive here.

i'm basing my comments on the fact that i've traveled the same route to work for 9 years now and there are two properties right across from each other on the same road and both have vinca planted. one side is virtually complete shade all day and the other side gets afternoon sun. the shaded side doesn't seem like it's grown at all - seems to be the same (small) amount of flowers and the vines haven't completely covered the area yet. the other side of the street, that gets some sun during the day, has almost completely filled in the area and there are, obviously, more flowers when it's in bloom.

my own little patch, which is completely surrounded by concrete and in full sun for all but a couple hours in the morning, was started with 8 starts in '99. we had a bad drought that year, so that slowed down the growth a bit and it didn't really get fully established until '01. by fully established i mean that it had obvious growth/spread in one season. it grew steadily; not too excessively until '06 - that year we barely had a winter and then in summer'07 the spot had completely filled in by fall. and last year it was just starting to overgrow the area and spill out on the walkway and driveway.

up here, it's not considered completely invasive - just 'possibly'. i wasn't taking chances and only put it in that one spot because of all the pavement.

iowa is about the same zone as me - maybe a little colder, i think? so, that's why i suggested it. the cold winters will keep it in check easily enough.

if the poster had been anywhere that was warmer, i wouldn't have recommended it!!


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Joclyn] #270947
Mar 27th, 2009 at 08:01 AM
Mar 27th, 2009 at 08:01 AM
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I used to have vinca majora everywhere too. Definitely DO NOT like it. I think I finally got rid of it.

People are always asking for roots of the vinca minora and I gladly pull some up and give it to them. I'm usually thinking "they'll be sorry." devil

The same route for 9 years. I'll bet you've seen a lot of yards come and go.

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Joclyn] #272134
Apr 3rd, 2009 at 05:09 AM
Apr 3rd, 2009 at 05:09 AM
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I think the rule of thumb is 4 inches from the base of the tree trunk.

We have pines too . . . acidic.

It looks easier on paper.

May I suggest doing some circles around your pines? With some bricks, or other rocks - fill them in with pine cones.

You can always pot some plants and sink them in - a lot easier than fussing with the dig around the pine.

Here's a picture of one of my pine tree tricks - it's not the neatest arrangement at this time, but still, it will illustrate what I mean.

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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Joclyn] #272358
Apr 4th, 2009 at 09:31 AM
Apr 4th, 2009 at 09:31 AM
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I have had Vinca under an ash tree behind my house in full shade. They have multiplied until now I have to trim them back. Of course I have been building and nuturing them for 4-5 years. There wasn't even dirt there before. The tree was on a hillside and I had to terrace the area with natural rock and fertilizer. Now I have moved to a different house not to far away but I can still see they are doing fine. flwr

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Miss_Connie] #273623
Apr 11th, 2009 at 09:25 AM
Apr 11th, 2009 at 09:25 AM
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bleeding hearts like shade also. I used to have some under a pine tree....they did fine. I got them as roots, so it did take a couple of years for them to look nice. In time, they grow into a good sized plant.

I also had hosta....LOVED them. I had this really nice old one that was never divided and it was HUGE. There are alot of different varieties of hosta also.


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: hisgal2] #279659
May 11th, 2009 at 02:11 PM
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pink, ok
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There is a lot of confusion with vinca. The annual vinca, perriwinkle, needs full sun. The pererenial vinca's need part shade. Vinca Majoris and Vinca Minoris, I think, are the perrenials. the minora is preferable, tidier and fuller, the majora is taller and less well behaved. I think, the minora is hardy to z4, the majora, z6, it has been a while since I had to look, both are hardy here.
The vincas would do better in a spot where they have top compete with grass than almost anything, Ajuga is pretty, but lower and I think only zone 6 in hardiness.....these are all things to look up, to compare,....the sedums tend to like a little sun, at least, and are not universally hardy, spurge is pretty, but not for everywhere, I'd look into V. minora, Ajuga, mondograss and monkeygrass, or a combination of low-maintenance, low growing groundcovers/shrubs, some of the azaleas are hardy, but not all, ferns, taxus...possibly a cultivar of English Ivy (the parent is very invasive.)


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: peppereater] #281669
May 24th, 2009 at 11:24 AM
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I love hostas for my shade garden also but so do the deer that walk through our back yard. It's a constant battle to keep ahead of their hunger. Deer Solution helps but as everybody says when the deer are really hungry, they will eat anything. They ate my holly bushes to the ground this winter.


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: peppereater] #281682
May 24th, 2009 at 01:26 PM
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did we thoroughly confuse you? What did you decide?


Carly may be right. The vinca minora and majora and perwinkle that I have growing in total shade (which goes against everything peppereater and joclyn say) is growing around oak trees not pines. I do like the looks of hosta - have those too.

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Bestofour] #281723
May 24th, 2009 at 04:22 PM
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Quote
The pererenial vinca's need part shade.


of all of the perennial vinca i see around here (both majora and minora) any that's in shady conditions doesn't grow as well as what's in full sun. zone 6b here.


Zone 6b
Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Bestofour] #281728
May 24th, 2009 at 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bestofour
The vinca minora and majora and perwinkle that I have growing in total shade (which goes against everything peppereater and joclyn say) is growing around oak trees not pines. I do like the looks of hosta - have those too.

which? the perrenials in full shade, or the annuals in sun?
The city parks planners use the annual almost exclusively in full sun, the perrenials prefer shade here because the less they have to compete with nasty, nasty bermudagrass, the tidier the plantings look. I just always thought of annual periwinkle as sun lovers and perrenials as shade lovers, I guess I never researched the facts of the matter.
My favorite is vinca minora, I love the flowers, and the diminutive size and small, tidy leaves appeal to me, especially massed in areas less than 15 or 20 feet across.
All are easy to grow, thumbup


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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: peppereater] #281734
May 24th, 2009 at 04:44 PM
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almost everything at my house grows in either total or full shade dave and the vincas and periwinkle were in total shade. Since the road work started they get a little more sun but it's mostly shade. They grow a lot. I am constantly pulling up and cutting back because the vincas and the periwinkle want to take over everything.

I can see how vinca minora would be pretty if it can be kept in control.


which is these is an annual? They keep returning here. I've been trying since we moved in to get totally rid of the vinca majora. I don't like it at all and it spreads too quickly.

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Bestofour] #281859
May 25th, 2009 at 08:29 AM
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in warmer zones, the viney vinca will grow well in shady conditions. in fact, because it IS warmer and more sunny for a larger portion of the year and doesn't quite get extensive freezes, they would need the partly shady conditions.

here, where we get substantial cold and ground freeze for a period of time, they go dormant for a bit so, they aren't as aggressive growers when they're in shady conditions.

i have some in full sun and, after a few years (one of which was a drought) they took off. i travel the same road to work and have been doing so for 9 years now. a section that i travel through is very shaded (lots of big & old trees) and there is vinca planted at numerous houses...looks pretty much as it did 7-8 years ago - iow, hasn't filled in the area yet. and that's a mix of different types of trees, so i don't think it's the type of tree that's affecting the slower growth, i think it's the shade along with the freezing ground that we get here.

the viney type is the one that's perennial and the one that is just an upright flower/plant is the one that's an annual.

i had them one year and really liked them (they got fairly tall and bloomed throughout the summer). i didn't manage to collect seeds though, and i haven't noticed it for sale again (i don't go shopping much though, so, it's possible it's around).


Zone 6b
Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Joclyn] #281919
May 25th, 2009 at 12:53 PM
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must be the freezing temps. We don't get a lot of cold weather. Don't know how you guys stand it. My niece lives in Philly.

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Bestofour] #281946
May 25th, 2009 at 03:48 PM
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the cold isn't so bad - as long as it stays cold. it's when the temps go up/down (when we have a mild winter) that's hard to deal with.

i'll take the cold any day over the more frequent humidity further south :)



Zone 6b
Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Joclyn] #281947
May 25th, 2009 at 03:49 PM
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it is humid here. I just can't imagine driving in the ice and snow.

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Bestofour] #282195
May 27th, 2009 at 01:48 PM
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driving in the snow isn't so bad - ice is even managable. i have no problem with it. it's the OTHER people out on the road that are the problem...those idiots who are going to fast for conditions. that's what makes accidents happen cuz, once you're sliding on snow/slush/ice/any combination you can't do much but hold on tight and prayers that the car stops before it hits something. grin


Zone 6b
Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Joclyn] #289489
Jul 14th, 2009 at 07:56 AM
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Hi
I'm in Illinois zone 5, Does anyone know if there is a tall plant or tree that will grow for privacy amongst pine trees. Ideally something that would reach 15 ft tall or more and spread to 3-4 feet wide. I have a 100 ft line of pines that the branches were cut up to around 10 ft. by the previous owner and I have installed a pool and would really love to close the gaps. Any suggestions?

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: LisaV] #293497
Aug 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 PM
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Goodness...
I got sidetracked by spring and rodeo season and couldn't get back in here! I love all of these suggestions...but I think I'll try to steer clear of anything Vinca ;) I'm not sure what kind of grass grows underneath them...all I know is that when I mow the tree line, I have to use the push mower to mow right up to the trunks.

It looks as if landscaping around the trees will have to be put off until next year. Sadly, my husband died last Tuesday, and planting anything just doesn't appeal to me right now, since this was going to be our fall project. I'm so glad that you all responded to my question, and I have so many ideas to play with over the coming 'off-season'. I think I will try to design a memorial garden out there if possible. He loved gardening and growing things (plant or animal).

It's not an easy place to landscape, as it is so large, and all the trees are planted in long rows for a windbreak effect, so this is going to be an ongoing project, I suspect.

Again...thank you all so very much for your suggestions!

Connie Gheer

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: peppereater] #313453
Apr 17th, 2010 at 08:32 AM
Apr 17th, 2010 at 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by peppereater
There is a lot of confusion with vinca. The annual vinca, perriwinkle, needs full sun. The pererenial vinca's need part shade. Vinca Majoris and Vinca Minoris, I think, are the perrenials. the minora is preferable, tidier and fuller, the majora is taller and less well behaved. I think, the minora is hardy to z4, the majora, z6, it has been a while since I had to look, both are hardy here.
The vincas would do better in a spot where they have top compete with grass than almost anything, Ajuga is pretty, but lower and I think only zone 6 in hardiness.....these are all things to look up, to compare,....the sedums tend to like a little sun, at least, and are not universally hardy, spurge is pretty, but not for everywhere, I'd look into V. minora, Ajuga, mondograss and monkeygrass, or a combination of low-maintenance, low growing groundcovers/shrubs, some of the azaleas are hardy, but not all, ferns, taxus...possibly a cultivar of English Ivy (the parent is very invasive.)


Thanks for that explanation about the vinca . . . my periwinkle is the shade lover type. One of my e pals in Texas just bought some and has planted in full sun - says they do better that way.

Your explanation answers my questions on it.



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Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Joclyn] #319177
May 24th, 2010 at 06:47 AM
May 24th, 2010 at 06:47 AM
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I have a similar situation. I'm trying to figure out how to upload a photo of my back yard for advice from the master gardeners here.....but until lightening strikes, and I figure it out, I'll explain it:

I moved into a townhouse owned by a friend. She has no inclination to do do anything outside, so its all mine! The ENTIRE space was COVERED in weeds (except for one little pathetic fern found under them). After one busy day a friend and I took out all the weeds. I'm trying to get mulch in pronto....need a truck, Hum idea

Anyway, here's my first and most pressing question: a space of about 10x10 was 100% poison ivy, which had climbed up one pine tree in the yard and is covering a forest-y space outside the fence. I dug up and removed the poison ivy, and cut the root of the poison ivy that was climbing up the tree in the yard. Now, what do I do about the poison ivy outside the fence area? It'll climb back in if I leave it. I have no signs of poison ivy rash right now, but should I chance it again? The gardener next door and I are at a loss for what to do about it.

Thanks all!

Re: Plants that grow beneath and around pine trees [Re: Miss_Connie] #332322
Oct 6th, 2010 at 12:41 PM
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There are some botanical experts that would say DO NOT plant anything under trees. I pay no attention to that. I've seen some pretty nice displays under trees and the trees don't seem to be suffering any for it either.



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