A Gardeners Forum Forums General Discussion Landscape trials and triumphs Septic Discussion

I did not want to do a OT in the other discussion so......

Carol, thanks that was great info. I understand what you are saying I think with me it is what I am use to and Septic scares the heck out of me. Especially the planting trees, washing cloths, taking showers etc. Since I work out of town I only have the two days to do what needs to be done.

It is hard to look at buying property with 1 - 2 acres and have to watch where you plant trees. I wanted to be able to do more trees so that there is not a lot of lawn to mow. I had envisioned paths trees/bushes not rolling lawn. Out of 5 houses that had septic only one could tell us where the tank was. The plumber told me it would cost a couple thousand and digging the yard up to give me that info. Is that true?

I welcome all that have septic to give me your input. It might help me not have to pass up some of the houses I might be able to consider. None have had well water. One had septic only for waste and a brown water waste line.

I much prefer septic to sewer. When you buy, the owners should know where it is or an inspection should be able to pinpoint it without digging up a whole yard. There should be no problems doing all of the showers and laundry that you would like with a standard septic. When planting your trees make sure you leave room for a sump truck to drive up close to your septic for pumping if it ever becomes necessary. And if the cover/pipe isn't visible then make it so.
But I've lived with septic for many years between it needing pumping. I live in a house with six RV spaces below it, all on the same septic. Most are permanently rented spaces. That is 13 people with 8 bathrooms. We have no problems. We do make sure there is nothing planted with invasive roots near the tank.
Over a septic would be a great place to place an outdoor seabed garden. Mostly sand and rock with no grass. Hide the pipe with those rocks.

Oh, and my bath and laundry water do not go to the septic. We use it directly on my plants and trees here. That works well in my semi-desert area.

I have trees planted on my property but none within 30 feet of my septic and absolutely no willow trees. I have rose bushes planted close to it though, no problems there. As long as the bushes have shallow roots. I have a white fence with flowers planted directly over my field bed. My septic cap is 10 feet from my house and covered with a patio stone.

Everything goes to our septic and it is cleaned out once every two years. Only costs $75 for that here anyway. Don't be scared of a septic, just make sure you get it checked out as part of the house warranty.

my two cents on the septic, your county and/or township permit/license office can tell you where it is. i called ours (the office that issues building permits) and they were able to fax me a drawing which was an actual surveyors sketch showing the location with measurements of the tank, and drain field. i'll take a septic over a sewer anyday. and, for reference, a 2 acre lot will be roughly 225' x 400'. more than enough room for the septic and the trees you want.

Thank you all for helping me. All of you say you like the septic. Another question I guess is Why? I heard that they smell getting cleaned, you cannot flush certain toilet paper.

The paper would not be a problem. I had my bathroom remodeled and the new toilets will clog you need a stick to beat the stuff down. I look at the package and only buy paper for septic.

What are the other things I cannot flush. How about a garbage disposal? Type of dishwashing detergent or special laundry detergent?

I am sorry to be a pain but you have to realize I am old and have always had public septic and never had a problem. It cost us about 200 a year.

Cost is one reason for my preference for septic. No ongoing bills. I don't buy special paper. I use my garbage disposal as is norm. Bleach tends to slow down the natural metabolizing that a septic tank does But my laundry water goes directly to the trees.
If you ever have a sewer problem on your street or in the lines leading to the street the smell is just as foul. If a problem developed in sewer lines on your property, you were liable for the expense of repairs.
A properly working septic rarely needs a clean out. That is why you have leach fields. Flush a yeast cake down there every couple of months and that tends to keep the thing working properly.

You are not a pain. at all! don't feel that way. i've been on both, and i'll take the septic every time. first, if you are on a sewer, they charge by the amount of water going into the home, not out of the home. so, if you water a plant, or use your gray water (dish, laundry & bath water) to water plants, you pay for the sewage treatment of it anyway. and tina is right about repairs and costs. the rule for repairs is where is the break physically? if it is between the water meter and the house, it is your baby, whether it is your fault or not.


as for the soap/disposal/paper thing, the only thing i forbid to be flushed is feminine products. and that is because they clog the lines and aren't as bio degradable as they are advertised. but they clog sewer lines too, and at the dorms, we recommend that they are properly disposed of in the garbage. especially in the 3 girls to a room rooms.


i flush yeast when i think of it, pour all soured milk down it (also good for the lines) and generally use vinegar and baking soda when the drains smell "funny". but i did the vinegar/baking soda thing when we were on sewer because i didn't want lye drain cleaners in the house with the kids.


everything i've read, and everything i've experienced says that getting them cleaned about every 8-15 years is average if the number of people is equal to or higher than the number of bedrooms. some locations determine the size of the tank and leach/drain field based on number of bedrooms. less people mean less cleaning. so, if you have a 4 bedroom house, with a comparably sized system, and it is just you, or just you and your daughter, you can figure half as many clean outs, so you are looking at 15-30 years between cleanings. does that make sense?

and using the disposal actually helps because it feeds the bacteria that keep the system working. as long as the disposal is in proper working order.

Yes, Jiffy. You said it so much better than I. I have also lived with both. And prefer septic. And I'm thinking, if you are going for acreage as opposed to a city lot, you may not have much choice. Most larger rural are septic.

WOW Thank you both. Tina you are right that is why I have been house hunting for 10 months. Very few of the houses in my area that are 2 acres have public sewage it is septic. This is a suburban area the next block will have public. But most of the properties with acreage have septic.

The ones with public sewage have the acerage the wrong way. I found one the acreage was front and back but not distributed around the house. So the house is really far off the road and you had a long back yard going into the woods but the neighbors on either side was only 5' away.

Jiffy it is going to be only 2 so if I do not have to clean it for 30 years I will probably be dead or in a home by then so this is sounding good.

well, all lots southwest of me are sewer and all lots from me north west are septic. i'm on the line, but they will have to drag me kicking and screaming on to the sewer system.

Jiffy. That is funny. My daughter called the water company and asked them how much it would cost to run a sewage line at one of the houses we were considering. The Guy at the water co said he was familar with the property and the neighbors acted like you when they offered to put them on public sewer a few years back.

He told her to forget it that the neighbors would do petitions against us and block us from going through their property to get to the sewer line.

You just haven't dealt with septic before, Aud. New stuff is scarey. But make sure you get all info on how old the tank is and it's placement. If your property needs inspection before it changes hands in your area, make sure the septic system is checked too. If things need repair or redoing, that is the time to find out.
When you hear about septic tank problems, it is usually because someone is having problems with them. That is often invasive roots.
There are millions that you never hear about because they are working smoothly.

Yes new is very scary. The house was built in 1950 so I am betting that there have not been any changes. So it is that old at least. The house has such charm it even has a slate roof those are not common in the suburbs.

I will give it some more thought. You and Jiffy have helped me feel better about the septic. Thank you. I may still need some more hand holding though.

OMG------I seemed to have opened up a Pandora's box with my talk about the septic.

Ok, being in the septic business, I can tell you, DO NOT WAIT 15 years to pump. That is too long. Especially if there are a lot of people in the house. DO NOT flush garbage, household waste, feminine products, down the toilet. Toilet paper is NOT all the same........buy a few different brands and tear off a piece and put it into a glass of water and see how long it takes to dissolve, and even IF it dissolves. All things are NOT biodegradable. I still say do not do a lot of laundry all at once.............space out each load by at least an hour.

A thousand dollars to dig up the yard and look for the tank sounds like you are being taken for a ride.......check with somebody else. Is there a family member that is young and strong? Get him/her to dig. Go into your basement and see where the septic pipe goes out. That gives you a direction. Look for a "dip" in the lawn, that gives you another idea. My husband says most of the tanks are within 20 feet of the house, another clue. You can do a LOT of digging yourself for a thousand dollars. Also, you need to find the lid that is about 2 feet across, usually cement. That little six inch pipe does not work. Think of a mayonaise jar. Poke a hole in the top the size of a straw and try to clean it out. Doesn't work to well, does it? Now, unscrew the lid and clean it out. See the differnce? Once you have found it, mark it somehow for future pumpings. Put a riser on it.......my best recomendation, cause then you won't ever have to dig again, and the pumper is the one that lifts the lid off. One lady put a birdbath over the her septic lid to mark it. Mark it down on a piece of paper and put it in with the household papers for future owners.

As far as the township office having inforamtion about where your tank is, that is really highly unlikely, unless your township has enforced mandatory pumpings with inspections and the inspector has drawn a map. Besides helping my husband with the business, I am also township secretary, and know this to be so. We have only started mandatory pumpings in the last 3 years. It will eventually be mandatory in Pa., but we were the first in the county to do it, and it created a LOT of discussion. My own husband, does not like the government TELLING us what we have to do, even when this helps our business. It is being TOLD to do it that bothers him. You can liken it to maintaince on your car, or even yourself.............but still, it should be YOUR CHOICE.

Ok, I have written this post 3 times now. Somehow I keep erasing some part of it. Just hope it doesn't show up 3 times.

Good luck people
Carol

here in Virginia you have to get a building permit for a septic system so you have to submit a plan and it is on file. The same for Washington state. Those are the only two states I know about. It could be different in different places.

Definitely septic is best to my way of thinking. I'm looking for a place with a septic tank and a well and then with dilligent savings I plan on having either a wind mill or solar panels depending on which will deliver the most power. Hope it is a windy place wind mills are cheaper to buy.

About septic in some places it is required that the previous owner pump the tank before it is sold. That's what we had at the last place my dad bought. The document was right in the contract with the date and company that did the pumping. And yet yeast is definitely cheaper than Rid-X and does the same job.

And with septic I think it is easier to set up a grey water system that is such a boon to the garden. Well there is my two cents worth lol.

OK this is the details of the property...

It is a repo so the price was as is. I had everything checked out from the rooter to the tooter. It cost me almost 1,000 to do all the inspections. The bank is trying to and seem to be succeeding in not giving any info. I had to contact the township to find out that it was septic. They had it listed as public.

The plumber looked like he tried to find the septic tank. He said these places were built with family many times and paid the right people and did somethings that were not all on the up and legal. He said one of the properties in the area had a problem and he discovered the septic was going directly into the mine. Since it was grandfathered into the property the township will not do anything to them. But if there is big problems the owners would have to pay 30 thou to correct the failed septic.

But the only problem he said they will ever have is that the Township comes after them. Such as a change in "cleaning on a schedule". He said it will never fail because it is dumping directly into the mine.

So that is what I am looking at.

This has nothing to do with your question...this is my first time on this page. How do you add your own question to the forum?

Find the subject that most closely matches your problem, Like gardening or something. Near the top is a place to click called 'new topic'.
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I'm loving the sound of your new possible house, Aud. I'm thinking the septic even if it needs work would be worth it. Sounds old enough to have good 'bones' to it. Like real plaster and things. Does it already have good plantings to start?

Yes Tina needs work but what a charm. It is like a cottage. It is big but still it has that cottage setting. I have to give it more thought. I just do not know. Also, they need to lower the price if I am going to bring it back to its glory. I will counter their offer next week. We will see what happens.

This is the front of the house


Family/living room 12' vaulted ceiling. This really sold me. LOL




Back of the house


Another view of the front


Side back view.

That is beautiful.

it is beautiful.

the first house i ever owned was built in 1937 on a lot that had 10 pecan trees. the septic failed twice. the first time was a tree root from the oak tree growing near it. fixed that. the second was someone flushed some toys (not my kids, i wasn't living there at the time but found the problem when i moved back in). the first time, it cost more to fix because i had to have a custom lid poured for it because they had to break the old lid, it was nearly welded shut from age, and the tree root had actually grown into the tank itself, so it had to have the lid off to fix it.

the second, was cheaper, but more irritating because of other damage from other things the folks living there did.

the sum total of the repairs was still cheaper than the cost of connecting to the sewer line (it was a "grandfathered" house, sewer was available if i wanted to pay the 2k at the time to connect) and/or a year's water/sewage bill. my water bill without sewage was about $10 a month. if i had has sewage, it would have been closer to $40. i owned that house over 12 years, and it convinced me that septic was the way to go. and yes, the county had the tank location on file from the building permit. even from that long ago, and the house was a family built home job (hence the custom lid for the tank, it was a home job too, but passed inspection). it did have a seperate "gray water" system from the kitchen and laundry. the time that froze was a real treat. and a story for another time.

Thank you. I love a old house. Anything built now does not appeal to me with the fake brick and fake walls. My friends built a house and I feel like if a strong wind comes along they are going to be picking it up putting it in a grocery bag.

The house I own now was built in the late 60s. It is all brick and I like it just not big enough.

OK Jiffy the frozen brown water has scared me. I am back to I don't know if I want the house.

Yes, I'm not at all sure how gray water waste works in cold climates. I don't 'think' cold. I'm a California baby. I'm sure that could be a problem. But I still think septic is the best way to go.

All our water goes into a concrete septic holder then off to a field bed. In colder climates they just install them deeper. We dig out all the ground and pour in a few loads of crushed rock under the infilltrators then cover it all back up.

The deep snow insulates the ground as well. It get's in the -40's here and we've only heard of a few people having their septics freeze and that was usually from them clearing the snow from over the tanks.

not to worry about the grey water lines---all you need to do to keep the lines from freezing is this--
we just kept the doors to the kitchen sink/ bathroom vanity pipes open on the coldest nights (& a very few days)--- and the lines outside should be buried low enough that that is not a problem. At my house in the country it was not ever a problem.

and OH--MT DH had the below floor pipes of the bathroom wrapped to insulate them because they were in a pert of the house that was just a crawl space--so it was exposed to the cold. But then there was not a problem--

You can ask that the seller be asked all these questions about the house.

Your realtor will get the info from their realtor for you.
Should not be a problem.

I just noticed this thread, after Cinta posted that she is going for this house and asked questions about moving.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

Our house was built in 1978. We are the second owners. We had it pumped about 5 years after we moved in, but the relatively "new" village we live in was making it mandatory for all residents to hook up to the sewer line within 5 years of taking possession. No one ever asked us, so we put it off. We had no problems with the TP that we use, but were definitely told we could NOT have a garbage disposal in the kitchen sink.

Last summer, Don noticed that the ground was getting "soft, and mushy" around the area where the tank was supposed to be, while mowing the lawn there. He called someone in to do tests, and they found that 2 of the main field pipes were beyond fixing, so it was definitely time to hook up to the sewer since we were supposed to anyway, and fixing the pipes would have been expensive anyway.. I hesitate to tell you what it cost - because our property slopes down away from the street, there was a deeper level that the pipes had to be installed at in certain areas, and turn arounds too. The guy did it well, was extremely nice (he's the one who also dug out the pond area for free at the same time!), but it cost $6000!!!!!!!

I don't really notice any difference in the way the water drains from any of the sinks or toilets. Nor the washing machine - water still backs 1/2 way up into the sink there when the washer drains. The only thing is, now I'm not so concerned if bits of food go down the kitchen sink, and of course we don't have to be concerned with overfilling the tanks.

Speaking of tanks... Don found a second tank directly under where the guy dug the hole for the pond. It actually prevented Don from making the pond as deep as I wanted it, to be able to overwinter fish there. That, and the expense were the only 2 drawbacks from connecting to the sewers.