A Gardeners Forum Forums General Discussion The Food Garden Forum Should I go with Hybrid plants or Non-Hybrid?

What is the difference? I mean, I know the hybrids are, well, hybrids.. newer variations created by scientific measures.. right??

But are they GOOD? Can you please give me some pros and cons of each.. I am seeing ALOT of Hybrids in my catalogs.. and not being familiar enough with all of this, what do I do?? >>>>> Come running to you guys!!

So, any help??

Hybrids have hybrid vigor which is why they perform better than open pollinated varieties.They also stand up to diseases better. Their fruits taste better.They mature faster. The bad part's that u can't save seeds from hybrids; the seedlings from the seeds r different & the companies can charge u mor for them.

Soo you recommend the hybrids then?

Yes,however; plant open pollinated varieties if u want to save seeds.

Hmm.. I am not interested in saving the seeds.. I will have enough left over this year for two more years probably.. no way I am planting ALL of them.

I'm going to dig my garden to the fullest extent of MY HANDS

I am sorry, but what does that have to do with hybrids? Am I missing something?

sorry,went off topic here

Pinkhorse...don't be scared away from non-hybrid varieties by claims made by seed catalogues. The truth is that many non-hybrid plants are as reliable as hybrids and may have equal tolerance to some diseases. Also keep in mind that many diseases may not be in your area, and that other diseases affect hybrids as often as non-hybrid.
Some hybrids are grown for no other reason than eye appeal or novelty, too, with no benefit of disease resistance whatsoever.
One reason there are so many non-hybrid varieties around is that these varieties have proven to do very well for many people over many years...and have superior flavor than hybrids, in many cases.
I grow only non-hybrid, open-pollenated tomatoes, for instance, but I do grow certain hybrid peppers for their color or shape, and I'll be growing a hybrid muskmelon for it's dwarf size this year. None of my choices for hybrids are based on taste this season, or disease resistance, either.
This said, some varieties you may be led to believe are hybrid are not. If the label does not say hybrid or F1, it may not be a hybrid at all. Most companies will not mention when a variety is not a hybrid, if so, the label will say "Heirloom" or Open Pollenated.

You nailed it!

Thanks Peppereater!! I appreciate that information! I was just curious if Hybrids were better/worse.. whatever.. ya know?

The best tasting hybrid tomato is supposed to be a golden cherry called Sungold. The big slicing tomatoes are what most people want, and the best flavored ones aren't hybrids. Hybrids are often very productive but lack flavor. Some people grow one or more hybrids expecting a guarantee of success, plus one or more non-hybrids to try the flavor. There's no guarantee which will do well in one person's garden.
I guess I'm carrying on about this because I've been growing different tomatoes for a decade, and I'm a little obsessed with them. I don't care for many hybrids.

No no.. that is fine!! Really! I want some good slicing tomatoes! But it doesn't have to be a hybrid.. I want the best flavor and texture.. I also will be doing some cherry tomatoes.. do you experiment with those too?

I've grown a few, but this year I'll be trying 6 or 7 varieties. I can't wait to taste those Sungolds, hybrid or not! :wink:

Another reason people choose non-hybrids or heirloom over the hybrids is to preserve the natural, organic way of gardening. Too much is tampered with and altered in this day and age and many people strive to get back to basics. The heirloom tomatoes are the tried and true great tasting tomatoes that our great great grandparents grew. By growing the non-hybrids you are preserving a part of history for future generations. Wouldn't it be sad if we had to tell our grandchildren about the great tasting, juicy tomatoes that no longer exist? I'm not totally against the hybrids, it's fun to try new things, but I am strongly pro-heirloom and if space is limited will choose them over hybrids any day.

So are the Sungolds better than the heirloom tomatoes?? I have never seen the Sungold variety I don't think. I just want a really good slicer.. that is mainly how I eat them.. with salt and pepper.. or on sandwiches.

This year I am debating on canning some also.. not alot.. but to use in chili and sloppy joes etc.. and I might like to make some Salsa too.. But all this is new to me.. I have never canned a thing in my life. It is kind of intimidating.

And Mel, yes, I really do see where you are coming from.. and I have to agree! I would rather go with the old heirlooms also..

Sungold is a really sweet cherry. For slicers, there are lots of good ones. Lots of people love Beefsteak, and you can usually find those. Celebrity is good. A good one to grow for canning is still the Roma. All of these can be hybrids or not depending on what source they come from, but they'll be good either way. (kinda confusing? it is. seed companies have to claim improvements in some things to compete)
Say, are you close to Amish country? The Amish are famous for a number of heirloom tomatoes. They may even sell plants at markets. Local farmers markets will have some heirloom growers as well.
My favorite tomato of all is Brandywine, it's an Amish heirloom. I've also heard a good canning/sauce tomato is Amish Paste.

Ohhh the Sungold is a cherry?? I thought it was a big one.. hm.. ok. LOL I have heard of the beefsteak.. last year I planted Early Girls and Better Boys to see which one I liked best.. and I really didn't have a preference.

So for the Salsa, should I go with the Roma? Like I said, I am not necessarily FOR the hybrids.. I just wondered if they were better.. and for the most part, I think they are in some ways.. but like Mel said earlier, as far as heritage goes.. the heirlooms are the way to go... and the taste is probably pretty reliable also.

And yes, we are fairly close to Amish Country.. about an hour or so. But we do have alot of Amish around here too.. I am sure our local farmers market has many amish who sell their goods. I would have to check and see if they have plants as well as the produce though. We actually have an Amish guy who does all the farrier work on our horses.. so maybe I will put a bug in his ear when I see him next. :wink:

Grow a couple of EG or BB, whichever grew best last year, a couple of Romas and a couple of different heirlooms, whatever you have space for. You can never know what will do best from year to year, so it's good to have variety. The farrier may have a good lead or 2, keep us posted!

I don't know where to get cheap heirloom seeds,anyone know a place???

you can get them online or someone on here might have some for trade post what you want on the seed trade list and post what you can give.... me i don't get into the hybrid or heirloom debate, whatevers on sale it don't matter to me....

Probably a smart move there!

No, I didn't mean to start a debate.. I was just asking.

I will add my 2 cents to this good discussion. Much good information here and
Dave always gives great advice. I have gardened for 40 plus years and although I like to raise lots of veggies I have always leaned more towards the peppers and tomatoes. Maybe because I like to make lots of hot sauce and salsa on top of eating several fresh everyday. I grew hybrids mainly from the late 60's till around 6-7 years ago when I started trying some op's/heirlooms. I didn't get real serious till two years ago. Then I planted around 30 hybrid and 30 op's. Last year it was 65 op's and 20 hybrids. This year will be 52 op varieties and around 6 hybrids. I have a few standby hybrids that produce and taste well here in my garden. One is the hybrid Goliath. A favorite of mine and those I give and sell too. Everyone's taste preference is different and also our climates and soils affect taste. I tried Sungold last year and to be honest cherry tomatoes have never been a favorite of mine. It was good but won't be back. I liked an op Juane Flammee' better and it is 2-3 times the size. In growing op's you need to try several to find those that do well in your garden. Most op's were hybrids that have been stabilized. You have some sports of a variety but many are stabilized hybrids. And many have disease resistance. I'm growing one this year that was a hybrid developed by Kansas State in the 20's for wilt resistance and stabilized before being released. I had several op's that did very well last year. But two that stood out production and taste wise was Chapman ( a nice big beefsteak with great flavor) and Kellogg's Breakfast. A nice big orange tomato with excellent taste till it cooled down. I could name several more. If you would like to try seeds of a particular variety send me a email. I might have a few extra I could send. I have over 200 op varieties in my stock. I personally grow what does well and tastes great here in my garden and don't pay any attention to whether it is hybrid or not. One reason I'm so heavy on op's now is I'm trying to find those that do well here. I hope to start selling more and trying to speed up the process a little. I do try one or two new hybrids every year also. I will be growing a re-release this year called Ramapo that many op growers really like. It is a hybrid but there is also an op stabilized version of it. I also grow hybrid and op peppers. Great gardening to all and hope I haven't confused you too bad.

Hey Enrique, there are lots of heirlooms, many are cheaper than hybrids because they don't require crossing. If you have Dollar General, Family Dollar or any thrift stores that offer cheap seeds, they're basically heirlooms. At least they're open-pollenated, the definition isn't exact. The cheaper seed is open-pollenated, always. Rutgers, San Marzano, Roma, Marmande, Red Cherry, these are all Heirlooms. Heirloom is a term that's often used to get a really high price for less well-known varieties, but it can be the same seed as the cheap seed because of the current interest in heirlooms.

I grow 'Roma' tomatoes & 'Beefsteak' every year.This year,I'm going to try 'Rutgers'.I also used to grow'Golden Bantam' corn which I believe is a heirloom too.

Hey! Thanks, Jay, I clicked on a link and didn't see your post until I had replied to Enrique's post.
Now Jay (elk) is a guy who knows a thing or two. He's gardened more than I have, and grown more tomatoes than probably anyone here. Thanks for putting it all into perspective, elk.
BTW, your help is always welcome. You know more than most of us ever will!

All heirlooms, all great varieties.

The problem with the corn is that the stalks stay small and the ears have mostly nothing.

Fertilize and see what you get...corn is greedy.

i GAVE THEM LOADS OF MIRACLE GRO ;MAYBE IT WAS LACK OF WATER I OFTEN FORGET TO WATER SO i ONLY WATER ONCE A WEEK EVEN IN HOT WEATHER.oops...Caps Lock was on.

I'm going to post my tentative to grow list here. I had it copied to send on another post and decided I would just let everyone see a rough idea of what I'll be growing. I do know of a few changes I will be making. Look it over and comment. If anyone desires I can send you a list of my inventory but quite a bit longer than this one. Just pm me. Jay

2008 Tomato List-Open Pollinated

1.Adelia-SF
2.Amazon Chocolate
3.Brandywine Glick’s-AL
4.Brandywine Sudduth
5.Buckeye Yellow
6.Carbon-TGS
7.Chapman
8.Cherokee Chocolate-TF
9.Cherokee Purple-
10.Cherokee Purple PL
11.Condine Red
12.Eva Ball Purple-TF
13.Flamme’-TF-SF
14.Florida Pink-TF
15.Godlove-SF-TF
16.German Johnson-TF
17.Grub’s Mystery Green
18.Goosecreek
19.Hege’s German Pink
20.Indian Stripe
21.JD’s Special C Tex
22.Kanora- Developed by KSU in the 20’s
23.KBX PL
24.Kellog’s Breakfast-TT-V
25Little Lucky-V
26.Matt D Imperio
27.Missouri Pink Love Apple-BC
28.Mr Bruno
29.Moonglow-SF
30.Mule Team-TF-SF
31.Mystery Black
32.Pineapple-AL-V
33.Prue
34.Roughwood Golden Plum PL-SHP
35.Sioux-BC
36.Spear’s Tennessee Green-BC-AL
37.Stump O’ the World-TF
38.Sunset’s Red Horizon-TF
39.Texas Star- SF
40.Tom’s Yellow Wonder
41.Vintage Wine Striped-AL
42.Wes-SF
43.William’s Striped- BC
44. Marizol Red-TF
45. Lillian’s Red Kansas Paste
46. Coustralee
47. Grandma Viney’s Yellow and Pink
48. Caspian Pink-SF-TT
49. New Big Dwarf
50. Mexico-V
51. Tidwell German
52. Ernie’s Pink

Eme,
It could be the water but only if the leaves are curling bad and then they will start to burn on the ends if there isn't enough water. I would have to know your soil and garden to even guess how ofter you should water. I usually only water once a week even in hot weather. Sometimes if it is above 100 every five. But I have real sand soil and put down up to 4" of mulch. Both help a lot. Corn is like any crop if you get to know it it will tell you what it needs. The leaves curling tell you it needs water. If they are yellow and not bright fertilizer. I would say you need to fertilize more. Work in lots of manure and compost. Chicken manure works great for corn. But I've only had horse the last several years. I will if I feel they need it sprinkle a side dress at the base and just work it in. Most years I don't have too. As I've got my soil in great shape. I worked 4" of loose alfalfa and around 2" of manure this year. I will side dress the corn with additional manure. Keep trying. We all learn every day and year. And failure makes us better. JMO. Jay